slip joint reliability and ferncos

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by adrianmariano, Jan 29, 2007.

  1. SteveW

    SteveW DIY Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    Interesting discussion.

    To expose my ignorance, what exactly is the difference between a schedule 40 trap and a tubular trap?
     
  2. kordts

    kordts In the Trades

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2005
    Occupation:
    industrial service plumbing foreman
    Location:
    exurban Chicago
    About 3 times the volume of water it will drain. One's glued, the other isn't.
     
  3. plumber1

    plumber1 Plumber

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2005
    Location:
    Florida
    I would go with HJ's experience and know how. I think along the same line and I'll bet HJ is using 17 gauge and not 20 gauge p-traps.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2007
  4. Racer814

    Racer814 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    I disagree with HJ all the time
    but he sounds like a very knowledgeable plumber



    on most things:D
     
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    If you plumbing comes up from the bottom of the cabinet, then you will want either an "island vent" some call it a loop vent, or at least an AAV.
     
  6. adrianmariano

    adrianmariano New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Here are some pictures showing the installation I already completed of a new utility sink. The old concrete sink was cracked in half and leaking, and it was covered with paint that was flaking off in big pieces and helping to clog the drain. My wife complains about cleaning the paintbrushes in the kitchen. With a decent faucet down there I may actually be able to clean my paintbrushes at the utility sink:

    [​IMG]

    Here's the new sink with a closeup of the drain. You can count the slipjoints. There's a bunch:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Since I was posting pictures I also included a picture of the kitchen sink that's up next for replacement. You can see that the existing installation is done entirely with sch 40 (except for the tailpieces) and has two traps. The drain line disappears into the floor and the bottom half shows how the pipes connect in the basement.

    [​IMG]

    Note that the presence of the window means there's not a lot of room down there.
     
  7. TedL

    TedL New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2006
    Location:
    NY Capital District
    Perhaps it's an optical illusion because of the angle, but the trap arm on the slop sink looks like it's going uphill.............
     
  8. Dunbar Plumbing

    Dunbar Plumbing Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Occupation:
    Service Plumber, Outdoor Temperature Relief Owner
    Location:
    Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati Area
    Now that I like

    seeing. A kitchen sink faucet instead of a laundry tub faucet.


    Reason?


    See that short piece of hose connected to the laundry tub spout? That right there is notorious for a potential cross-connection. (Below flood level rim) Just about every time I go to someone's house there is usually a hose connected to the spout hanging down in the bottom of the tub.

    A small leak on either cold or hot and a reversal of flow and you have contaminates in your potable water system.

    That faucet installed will never have a garden hose attached to it, the likelihood of it hanging down into the tub is less of a chance and there is a backflow device integrated into the faucet itself.

    Good work daniel son. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2007
  9. adrianmariano

    adrianmariano New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I checked the trap arm with a level and it definitely slopes down hill (though I'm not sure if it slopes downhill by the proper amount).

    The old utility sink faucet was unusable without the hose attached. With the hose it was barely usable. The odd thing is that I got advised by the guy at the plumbing supply store as well as by one plumbing book that it was impossible to install a kitchen faucet on a utility sink because the holes in the utility sink are supposedly in the wrong place. (My utility sink came with no holes predrilled so I could install whatever kind of faucet I wanted.)
     
  10. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I always use a kitchen sink on a laundry tray.

    Two ways:

    I get a single hole version, and use a soap dispenser for the second hole.
    I get a single hole version, with side spray for the second hole.

    It's much nicer for things like washing paint trays.
     
  11. markts30

    markts30 Commercial Plumber

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Occupation:
    Commercial Plumber
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    When you come to re-doing the kitchen sink, please make allowances for including a vent...
    The current setup does not have one - It would not pass code....
     
  12. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    How close to the sink does the vent have to be? It appears that could be a vent on the C.I. pipe in the second, under the floor photo.

    Rancher
     
  13. kordts

    kordts In the Trades

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2005
    Occupation:
    industrial service plumbing foreman
    Location:
    exurban Chicago
    If that branch for the kitchen stayed horizontal, the c.i. pipe going up could be a vent. Since the kitchen drain line goes vertical, that c.i. riser can't be a vent for the kitchen.
     
  14. Randyj

    Randyj Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2006
    Location:
    Alabama
    WHY? Looks like it vents the kitchen sink to me... not dealing with an s-trap...whats the deal? I'd say it's not "ideal" but that it does vent that line.
     
  15. Racer814

    Racer814 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    looks like an "S" trap to me

    if the 90 was replaced by a tee and the vent took off from there it would be kosher......
     
  16. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Location:
    Ohio
    yep, remove the 90 after the trap and install a T, Fem. Adp. an AAV and its alllll gooood.
     
  17. adrianmariano

    adrianmariano New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I believe the requirement is that the connection to the vent pipe must be higher than the water level in the trap being vented. Since in this case the connection to the vent pipe is a couple feet below the trap, that requirement is not met by my installation, hence my installation does not qualify as vented.

    I guess we've been lucky since we only rarely have noticed an unpleasant odor coming from the sink. My plan is to put in an AAV to fix it.

    I am a bit puzzled, though, because it appears like the plumbing was actually designed wrong when the house was built in 1954, and everyone in the neighborhood will have the same problem. Did they not understand venting in 1954? (In principle the kitchen was inspected when it was remodeled 11 years ago, which would have been an opportunity to fix it. I know the electrical was inspected, but maybe not the plumbing? In my area they are very lax about permits and inspections.)
     
  18. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    Since I was confused about what an "S" trap really was, I went and looked it up, and it answered my question, Randy's question and the plumbing code question... Here's the Link:

    http://www.usinspect.com/plumbing/VentsTraps.asp

    That pretty much says it all.

    [​IMG]

    Rancher
     
  19. adrianmariano

    adrianmariano New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I've seen some talk about 17 gauge or 20 gauge P-traps. What does this gauge designation mean? Does it apply to the tubular plastic traps?

    I have approximately a 15" separation between the drains on my double basin kitchen sink. Is it preferable to use a center outlet drain or an end outlet drain? (Mr. Cauldwell thinks the center outlet drains are less reliable. Is he wrong about this too?)
     
  20. plumber1

    plumber1 Plumber

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2005
    Location:
    Florida
    The lower the number, the thicker the material.

    I prefer to use an end outlet.....
     
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