New Toto Drake: Install issues

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Titan1, Feb 20, 2005.

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  1. Titan1

    Titan1 New Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    I just purchased a new Toto Drake toilet. I installed the bowl, then was putting the tank and noticed that I can't get it to snug up and not rock. I have tightened the bolts pretty snug with a 4" wrench. I then noticed that the lip on the bowl (the recessed areawhere the tank rests) is about 3/16" higher on the right side. It looks like the this lip comes to a peak on both sides of the bowl where the tank rests. Also this same lip on back of the bowl where the tank rests does not contact the bottom of the tank anywhere but the front. I am scared to tighten it much more because the bowl my crack?? Shouldn't the tank rest on this lip at the rear of the bowl? I believe that on our other Toto Carueso that the tank rests on this lip all the way around. Also the rubber washers in the tank are getting really smashed, so I know I am tightening this thing pretty good. Any suggestions?

  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Aug 17, 2004
    Bothell, Washington

    It's not important that the tank touch or that it may move some.
    Some tanks move and some don't.

    When we install them, it looks like this.
    I find that the tanks pull down pretty well.

    However, if you feel the "need" for a solid situation, there are molded on tanks. There are many one-piece toilets to choose from.
    Most come with a nice seat, are slightly quieter, and are easier to clean.
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2005
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  4. srdenny

    srdenny Plumbing Contractor

    Sep 11, 2004
    Plumbing Contractor
    SF Peninsula
    Use a 1/2" box or open end wrench to snug up both nuts, being careful to keep the tank straight and plumb. It should suug up to where the tank touches the bowl on both sides.
  5. Titan1

    Titan1 New Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    Ok, got another bowl, kind of the same issue. Here is what I did, I tighten the tank down to a point where the contact points were close, I uses those plastic toilet shims and placed them under the tank on the edge of each side and the back then tighten a little more. I can't see them and the tank no longer rocks. You would figure this would not be an issue on a $250+ toilet?
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Aug 17, 2004
    Bothell, Washington
    Tanks that move a little bit

    No, you would figure that life had more to offer than whether a "tank moves a little bit" or that it didn't move a little bit.

    Almost all tanks on all brands move a little bit.

    Maybe you can start a new wave of consumerism and educate everyone on "tanks that move a little bit".

    Why there must be millions and millions of tanks that are "moving a little bit" and I'm guessing that they aren't even aware of it.
    Maybe what this country needs is "tanks that move a little bit" day.

    We can all consider the implications of what it all means.
    How much better life would be if tanks didn't move a little bit.
    I believe this is a direct reflection on our society, our lack of education and poor teacher to student ratios, contributing to the result that our designers and engineers are producing products with "tanks that a little bit".

    Right now the only way to know that your tank will not "move a little bit" is to buy a one-piece toilet. Those toilets have their tanks molded right to the bowl.
    If only all toilets could share the same rights that the one-piece toilets have, standing firm against all hand pressure.

    Oops........I almost fell back on my chair. Hey! How come my chair is leaning backwards? Who put that goofy spring on the back? Why won't this chair sit still? Man! Now that you bring up the dangers of "tanks that move a little bit", I notice that there are dangers lurking everywhere.
    I'm even sitting in a chair that moves!
    What kind of stupid thing is that?

    Okay, we gotta get on this education thing right now.
    I'm beginning to think there may be lot's of things we don't know about that are not rigid.
    If we don't fix this as a people, we may find ourselves swinging in the wind when it's all done.
  7. Titan1

    Titan1 New Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    Did not mean to offend.

    Sorry if my post offended or upset you or anybody as that was not my intent. Actually Toto's Southern CA rep and their tech dept back East advised me to return the bowl as it should not rock "at all", their words, not mine. Toilets are the least of my concern in life, and I did not spend a lot of time fixing this either, maybe 5 minutes. I appreciate the time and expense you put into running this site and I have learned a lot from you and the experiences of others. I guess I am puzzled as to why you would berate me in your reply over something like this. Oh well, it's your board and your site so I guess that's your right to do so.

    Take care.
  8. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Aug 17, 2004
    Bothell, Washington
    I think I should be allowed some humor here. Some things just inspire me. :)

    Below the humor, there is some dark side however.

    I've answered the question about tanks that move more times than I would like.

    The real answer is "some tanks rock".

    I don't care how many reps you find to say otherwise,
    they aren't the ones installing these things.

    The purpose of this board is to answer questions asked and inform, not to argue about what is. If you ask me how it is in plumbing, I will try to tell you.

    If you don't like the answer, you can keep asking, hoping the answer changes.

    I installed quite a few Drakes last week, and some of the tanks moved.
    Did they leak? No.
    Will they leak? No.

    Throwing in shims like you did is one answer.
    I've never done that.

    Reps will tell you that products should be a certain way, however in the field it may be different.

    I've installed other brands where the tanks moved, and the reps told my customer that it must be installer error. (Western Potteries)

    So.......Here the plumber is told by the rep, that the tank will not move, but they do.
    Homeowner is upset, time is spent. Nobody is happy.
    Homeowner wants it "right",

    A little history about the Western 822 round front toilet.
    It's a $99 toilet with a two bolt design.
    Almost all Western Potteries toilets have tanks that rock quite a bit. Some not just a little.
    I've never had a problem with leaks on them however.
    Now I can't "make" the tank quit rocking, no matter what the rep says.

    Result of this, If the rep won't back the plumber in the field, then the plumber quits selling the product. It's not worth it.

    By the way, this was a customer that because I was feeling like a nice guy, Threw in a flange repair and a new shutoff valve for free. It didn't look like she had much money.
    The city was giving her a $60 rebate for replacing with a 1.6 gallon toilet.
    She gets $100 worth of free repairs, and a $60 rebate on a $99 toilet that works fine, and I wind up in trouble.
    The only complaint was that the tank moved.

    A little more history on toilets.
    If you've ever worked with wet clay, you will remember that clay shrinks and sags as it dries.
    It really is an imperfect world that they live in.
    I've seen programs on television that mention something like a 30% shrinkage factor when some brands hit the kiln.
    Toto uses much drier clay, so their shrinkage is one of the smallest in the industry.
    Because of this, I've never had a bad trapway on a Toto toilet.
    Because things are not perfect, I would say that no two toilets look exactly the same. There is no way of predicting how things dry or come out of the molds.
    All in all, it's been a good product.
    In some ways, I'm amazed that something made from clay turns out as well as it does.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2009
  9. SteveW

    SteveW DIY Senior Member

    Feb 11, 2005
    Omaha, NE
    Although my wife thinks I'm nuts (and may be right...), I find this free and open exchange of ideas to be extremely interesting and useful, not to mention entertaining!

    As a very novice DIY "plumber," I've replaced a grand total of 3 toilets. I do recall the "rocking tank" phenomenon the last one I did -- I kept wondering what the heck I was doing wrong!

    This is the real power of the Internet -- instantaneous information exchange among friendly and knowledgeable people. Next one I do, I won't worry if the tank seems a little loose.

    Also, the discussion of clay shrinkage causing trapway problems in other brands is interesting! Never would have considered that as an explanation for why some toilets just seem to flush "slow." Makes sense!
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