New hybrid WH. Moving to converted carport's storage room. Where to drain condensate?

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Too Ambitious

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My current water heater is in my basement mechanical room. Can't put a hybrid there because there's not enough head room. I'm planning to move it to a storage room behind what used to be a carport (converted into sunroom). It's on a slab.

The plan is to route the plumbing through the rim joist & the (former) exterior wall. (There is already electrical going that way.)

Can I just pipe the condensate and drain pan drains through the wall and into the sump pit?

If so... I know that I can't drain the condensate directly into the drain pan, but can I combine the condensate and drain pan lines into a single pipe before they go through the wall?

Here are some pics:

The plan:

IMG_6841.jpeg


This is the storage room where the new WH will go. Plan is to route the plumbing similar to the electrical.

IMG_6842.jpeg


Here's where the electrical is coming from. Planning to put a subpanel in the storage room rather than individual feeds.

IMG_6843.jpeg


Current WH location, sump pit is to the left.

IMG_6848.jpeg


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Breplum

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The water heater T&P relief line must drain to the outdoors.
Many jurisdictions will allow the combining of drain pan and condensate IF you upsize to handle the potential combined flow and join below floor level by a few inches, not just a tee in the side of the pan.
You should also have a high water alarm in that sump pit to alert in the event of sump pump failure.
 

Too Ambitious

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How cold does it get in the sun room in winter?
No colder than ~45-50, and it will be heated soon. (installing a mini split)

The water heater T&P relief line must drain to the outdoors.
Many jurisdictions will allow the combining of drain pan and condensate IF you upsize to handle the potential combined flow and join below floor level by a few inches, not just a tee in the side of the pan.
You should also have a high water alarm in that sump pit to alert in the event of sump pump failure.
Not according to IRC P2804.6.1. It can terminate in the drain pan (my plan), or to the floor.
 

John Gayewski

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You don't need to terminate a t&p outdoors. It only needs to terminate in a safe area. Heck you can terminate right onto the floor of a basement or garage There is no reason I can think of that you can't route it to your sump pit. It just needs to be safe. So if your serving the sump pump the relief valve doesn't burn you unexpectedly.

The condensate, the manufacturer should tell you where it should go. Generally it can go anywhere sometimes needs neutralizing first.
 

Too Ambitious

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Water heater got here this week, and I've started the install.

Here's my solution going through the end joist. And I wish I had an SDS and/or angle grinder. Did this all with a regular hammer drill, diamond blade on oscillating tool, and hammer/chisel. Had to notch the lower brick so the condensate drain has fall.

IMG_6973.JPG


left to right, 2" sleeve for insulated hot water line, 1" sleeve for uninsulated cold line (3/4 pex. yes, it fits), 1" drain pan, 3/4" condensate, 2" pass through. that is mainly to run a hose through to drain the heater, but I may use it for a recirc loop in the future.

Electrical will come through right above that carflex. Going to run EMT because I want to make it as hard on myself as possible.

Though I am considering sleeving the electrical conduit in 2" PVC as well. That way if I want to add a subpanel in the future I don't have to do any more demo.
 

Too Ambitious

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Should be done tomorrow. Trying to decide whether to mortar or spray foam the opening.

3B8A63DC-3A87-43F3-9F16-59F80FD8BECF.jpeg


Yes, the strut is overkill. The top strut is long because I plan to replace the disco with a subpanel when I redo this addition.

The EMT is cheaper to run than PVC or flex, though. This is kind of like playing with legos for me.
 

Too Ambitious

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Done. Just a few minor things. Need to seal up the penetrations, and I was just barely short of 3/4" to actually get the condensate drain into the sump pit. It's hovering above it right now, which is probably okay, but all the other condensate drains in there go down into the pit, so I'm going to copy that.

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I tapped into the existing lines w/ Sharkbite reducers since they're 1/2". I'm planning to completely repipe the trunk lines & upsize to 3/4 when I renovate the bathroom at the far end of the house. Now I need to insulate the existing hot line.
 

Too Ambitious

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These 2 45s represent the completion of this project. (Sorry, hard to get a good pic. Sump pit is under my furnace.)

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maybe the real treasure was the friends we made along the way

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wwhitney

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Are you going to further secure the cold water supply pipes near the floor?

Cheers, Wayne
 

wwhitney

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Looks a little challenging, you'd either have to bolt a block to the slab and strap the pipe to the block, or run a vertical member down from the ceiling to the floor. The latter would also allow you to secure the condensate drain pipe.

BTW, the electrical code requires a clear space in front of any disconnect or panelboard. It has to be 30" wide, 36" deep starting at the face of the enclosure, and I think 80" tall, with nothing else in that space, starting at the floor. The 30" width to fully include the width of the electrical enclosure, but that electrical enclosure width can be anywhere within the 30".

So if you have 30" between the lower horizontal condensate drain and the stud wall, that's good, and if you don't have 30" between the cold water supply and the stud wall, then you need to restrain that cold water supply to provide the 30".

Or you could run the cold water supply the other way around the water heater, gets it out of the way and there's plenty of wall to strap the pipe to.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Too Ambitious

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Looks a little challenging, you'd either have to bolt a block to the slab and strap the pipe to the block, or run a vertical member down from the ceiling to the floor. The latter would also allow you to secure the condensate drain pipe.

Is there a reason it needs to be secured?

How about strapping it to the water heater (which Rheem themselves show!!!!)?

Screen Shot 2021-12-07 at 11.51.03 PM.jpg


BTW, the electrical code requires a clear space in front of any disconnect or panelboard. It has to be 30" wide, 36" deep starting at the face of the enclosure, and I think 80" tall, with nothing else in that space, starting at the floor. The 30" width to fully include the width of the electrical enclosure, but that electrical enclosure width can be anywhere within the 30".
At the very least, that's up for interpretation. The NEC does not specifically say disconnects are subject to clearance requirements. There's been plenty of back-and-forth on this on the Mike Holt forums. Anyway, only one person's opinion matters: the inspector.

Here's a pro installation with a disconnect that doesn't meet clearance requirements:

water heater install.jpeg


BTW this is all moot. When I reno this area, a subpanel is going where that disconnect is. It will definitely have clearance then because I am pushing that wall out at least 18".
 

wwhitney

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Is there a reason it needs to be secured?
How about strapping it to the water heater (which Rheem themselves show!!!!)?
I'm pretty sure either the plumbing code or the manufacturer's instructions will require support at a given maximum spacing that is less that what is in your picture, but I don't have the reference. Right now it seems like it would be easy to kick the pipe, which seems undesirable.

Strapping to the water heater sounds like a nice solution.

Is there a reason it needs to be secured?
At the very least, that's up for interpretation. The NEC does not specifically say disconnects are subject to clearance requirements. There's been plenty of back-and-forth on this on the Mike Holt forums. Anyway, only one person's opinion matters: the inspector.
I'll agree with a slightly different take: most of the comments on mikeholt.com indicate that most jurisdictions do apply the working space requirements to disconnects. And the inspector represents the AHJ, but is rarely the final decision maker.

Anyway, just trying to point out things a strict inspector might call out.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Reach4

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Is there a reason it needs to be secured?
Pex is supposed to be supported every 30 horizontal inches. You could build a little wooden block/structure to set on the floor to support that horizontal pex if you wanted. Sounds better than a support cable running to a joist above.
 

Too Ambitious

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I'm pretty sure either the plumbing code or the manufacturer's instructions will require support at a given maximum spacing that is less that what is in your picture, but I don't have the reference. Right now it seems like it would be easy to kick the pipe, which seems undesirable.

Strapping to the water heater sounds like a nice solution.
I just worry that it will void the warranty, even though Rheem shows it in their own videos.
 

wwhitney

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I just worry that it will void the warranty, even though Rheem shows it in their own videos.
Most places, the tank cross section has the sheet metal on the outside, a couple (2?) inches of foam, and the glass lined steel tank on the inside. If you use a short fastener that just attaches to the outer sheet metal and doesn't penetrate the foam too far, how could that be a problem? Isn't that how the various metal covers on the tank exterior are attaches?

Cheers, Wayne
 
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