Need advice on how to fix the height etc issues as per mfg recommendation

[Curiousv]

We are trying to replace this tub and shower faucet - this was single handed and new is also single handed. ..new mfg recommendation says
1. min. distance between valve and tub spout 8 inch ..currently its like 6 or 7 inches
2. distance between tub bottom to valve body should be 30 inches ..in this case its like 24 inches
3. distance between tub spout and shower head should be 48 inches but in this case its like 54 inches.

Ok so I am thinking I should transition from this galv pipes to PEX and for that I can use PEX adapter that threads on to male galv pipes - if I do that is that a problem? Or I should not change the galvanized piping at all? can there be any corrosive reaction between galvanized pipe and PEX adapter which I think made of brass?
If remove this unions will that be a prob? I believe union is there separate corrosive reaction?
@breplum @Terry @wwhitney @jadnashua

 

[hj]

What you could do is throw 1, 2, & 3 in the garbage since they are just "recomendations", NOT "chiseled in stone". I am not sure if I EVER installed one according to those dimensions.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Chuck The Plumber]

I agree with HJ above that the measurements are not chiseled "in stone". I would get rid of as many of those galvanized pipes as possible. You have no other choice (unless you replace all galvanized piping) but to screw a PEX adapter into the existing piping. If you use a brass PEX adapter you could technically, eventually have intergranular corrosion (two dissimilar metals contacting each other) however, that would be so long in the making that you will probably need to replace the existing galvanized piping. I would at least replace the galvanized piping for the tub faucet to a point that you can get access to them without tearing out walls and ceilings for any future galvanized piping problems. Http://www.plumbingheatingcooling-yorkpa.com

 

[wwhitney]

(3) is certainly not a maximum, but it may be a minimum. As far as the tub spout diverter working properly and avoiding a slight dribble from the showerhead while the tub is filling. But it may also be a very conservative minimum.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Terry]

The tub spout drop can normally be pipe nipples, brass or galvanized, brass is better, or for a slip spout copper pipe.
PEX to the tub spout forces water upward to the shower head while filling the tub.

You can run PEX to the hot and cold side of the valve and to the shower head.

What brand and model of shower valve are you installing?

 

[Jadnashua]

Some of that may be the size of the trim for the valve, and that you may be installing a tub spout that is screwed on (they aren't always round). So, to ensure that any trim will fit and any tub spout will be able to be installed, they set that number to ensure you don't get to a situation where they interfere with each other it won't go together.

I'm fairly tall, so I like to put the shower head a bit higher than say someone 5' tall might like it!

As long as the tub spout exit is not below the flood rim of the tub, it's legal. The rest is aesthetics and mechanics.

 

[Curiousv]

The tub spout drop can normally be pipe nipples, brass or galvanized, brass is better, or for a slip spout copper pipe.
PEX to the tub spout forces water upward to the shower head while filling the tub.

You can run PEX to the hot and cold side of the valve and to the shower head.

What brand and model of shower valve are you installing?

Glacier Bay from Homedepot
Ok Tub spout will metal pipe nipple ..got it..and rest can be PEX
U did not say - when I remove the male galvanized pipe where it connects to concrete floor - and I use PEX male adapter instead
should I be concerned about dissimilar metals ? because to my knowledge those PEX adapters are always brass?

 

[Curiousv]

I agree with HJ above that the measurements are not chiseled "in stone". I would get rid of as many of those galvanized pipes as possible. You have no other choice (unless you replace all galvanized piping) but to screw a PEX adapter into the existing piping. If you use a brass PEX adapter you could technically, eventually have intergranular corrosion (two dissimilar metals contacting each other) however, that would be so long in the making that you will probably need to replace the existing galvanized piping. I would at least replace the galvanized piping for the tub faucet to a point that you can get access to them without tearing out walls and ceilings for any future galvanized piping problems. Http://www.plumbingheatingcooling-yorkpa.com

They only make PEX adapters in brass correct?
In this case I have to use male PEX adapter that will fit in to female pipe coming from the concrete floor.

 

[Curiousv]

I agree with HJ above that the measurements are not chiseled "in stone". I would get rid of as many of those galvanized pipes as possible. You have no other choice (unless you replace all galvanized piping) but to screw a PEX adapter into the existing piping. If you use a brass PEX adapter you could technically, eventually have intergranular corrosion (two dissimilar metals contacting each other) however, that would be so long in the making that you will probably need to replace the existing galvanized piping. I would at least replace the galvanized piping for the tub faucet to a point that you can get access to them without tearing out walls and ceilings for any future galvanized piping problems. Http://www.plumbingheatingcooling-yorkpa.com

have uploaded another pic that shows how cold line is connected through floor ..cold line is male pipe going in to female adapter and I am planning to remove this cold galv pipe and put a brass male adapter with other end crimp style so I can put PEX ...correct me if am wrong.

 

[Jadnashua]

There are some PEX fittings that are plastic, but you don't really want a female plastic threaded adapter...they work okay in compression, but not so good in expansion when attached to a tapered pipe thread...get it a bit tight, and over time the plastic fitting could split.

Sometime in the future, you're going to want to get rid of all the galvanize piping in the home...the hot lines rust out quicker than the cold, but eventually, they both go. Under a slab, it can be really bad as you won't easily be able to tell if it's leaking unless you check the water meter on occasion to see if it's moving when nothing is running in the house.

 

[Curiousv]

There are some PEX fittings that are plastic, but you don't really want a female plastic threaded adapter...they work okay in compression, but not so good in expansion when attached to a tapered pipe thread...get it a bit tight, and over time the plastic fitting could split.

Sometime in the future, you're going to want to get rid of all the galvanize piping in the home...the hot lines rust out quicker than the cold, but eventually, they both go. Under a slab, it can be really bad as you won't easily be able to tell if it's leaking unless you check the water meter on occasion to see if it's moving when nothing is running in the house.

Yes I do check water meter at times ..and so far its good ...
I do want to replace all galv pipes but under concrete floor its major job ..cant do on my own and may not keep the home long enough ..might sell or rent ..

Now I realized one mistake I made..I changed the bathtub ...so its new and the pipes you see are right behind this bathtub ..no space for more me to work on the bottom where it meets floor...so I guess I guess I have to leave that long pipe coming from the floor until union and than I can change to PEX ...unless u have any suggestion?
I can not go behind the drywall either (easily) because there is cabinet on the other side
also cold galv supply pipe is used to give grounding ..so if I remove this pipe ..I have to provide grounding somewhere else ..

 

[Jadnashua]

In many places today, using the water pipes for grounding is no longer allowed, partly because of what you're doing...adding PEX, which doesn't conduct. That does not mean that the pipe should not be BONDED to ground, but it no longer should BE the ground.

Near where the main power comes into the building, if you were to sink two ground rods and connect that to your panel, that would partly solve that issue.

 

[Curiousv]

In many places today, using the water pipes for grounding is no longer allowed, partly because of what you're doing...adding PEX, which doesn't conduct. That does not mean that the pipe should not be BONDED to ground, but it no longer should BE the ground.

Near where the main power comes into the building, if you were to sink two ground rods and connect that to your panel, that would partly solve that issue.

Yes in backyard I have seen a rod that connects to panel via heavy wire.
Anyway I am leaning towards not changing valve so I tried to put new cover plate on the sleeve and bonnet nut of old fixture (as shown in pic) but new cover plate does not go on to even sleeve -
does it mean new bonnet nut will not fit on to old valve?

 

[Jadnashua]

Finding parts is not a mix and match situation very often. So, while it is not uncommon for one manufacturer's rough-in valve to fit various trims, it is very rare for another company's stuff to fit. Then you have the age of the unit...things do change.

WIthout lots more details, and you'd probably only get a good answer from the manufacturer, can't say what will fit or not.

 

[Curiousv]

In many places today, using the water pipes for grounding is no longer allowed, partly because of what you're doing...adding PEX, which doesn't conduct. That does not mean that the pipe should not be BONDED to ground, but it no longer should BE the ground.

Near where the main power comes into the building, if you were to sink two ground rods and connect that to your panel, that would partly solve that issue.

Want to clarify something - if I leave those 2 supply pipes ..one hot and one cold that coming from the ground up ...which is about 2 ft from the concrete floor - (as shown in pic) and cold pipe connected to a wire for grounding

remove all other galv pipes and add PEX instead (means leaving galv supply pipes intact before union and just before union and after union if we put PEX - does it mean pipe will no longer be ground? (please refer to my pics below)

 

[Jadnashua]

There's a difference between the electrical ground and bonding things to ground. Your power distribution system in the house needs to be grounded. Years ago, they allowed you to use the metal pipes coming into the house as your electrical ground. That isn't true today, as they require (for the most part) you to install TWO ground rods and connect that to the electrical panel.

Bonding other metal bits to ground is to help protect from them being energized for some reason, that could include a nearby lightning strike, or faulty electrical wiring.

While the metal pipe in the home should be bonded to ground, it is not THE ground in the system. And, with the advent of pex and CPVC plastic piping in the home, since they don't conduct, and lightning won't do anything to it, and it could interrupt the electrical path of older systems where the pipe WAS the ground, you may not have any piping to bond to ground as it needs to be continuous to a place where it could become electrified.

 

[wwhitney]

Bonding other metal bits to ground is to help protect from them being energized for some reason, that could include a nearby lightning strike, or faulty electrical wiring.

Safety from lightning strikes is fairly separate from safety from electrical faults ("hot" wire to metal plumbing, e.g.). The former would obviously depend on appropriate earthing, while the latter typically depends on bonding and the bonding system's connection to one of the supply conductors. That connection is intended so that a fault will cause a circuit breaker to trip, by providing a return current path that completes a circuit in the event of a fault from "hot" to "other metal bits". That return current path does not involve the earth.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jadnashua]

Modern electrical code requires a grounding conductor, while there are numerous dwellings built before that became a requirement that did not have a ground. That grounding conductor is not the water pipes.

 

[Curiousv]

Modern electrical code requires a grounding conductor, while there are numerous dwellings built before that became a requirement that did not have a ground. That grounding conductor is not the water pipes.

Hello, I have similar question - House has old wiring - just 2 wires ..no grounding wire in that cable.
We have GFCI outlet in 1st place in circuit so remaining circuit is protected from ground fault.
But that gfci outlet box itself is grounded?
also how to check if all other outlets and switches are grounded too?
if not grounded how to ground them?

 

[Jeff H Young]

Hello, I have similar question - House has old wiring - just 2 wires ..no grounding wire in that cable.
We have GFCI outlet in 1st place in circuit so remaining circuit is protected from ground fault.
But that gfci outlet box itself is grounded?
also how to check if all other outlets and switches are grounded too?
if not grounded how to ground them?

use a tester but it takes more than a hot and a neutral to have 3 prong outlets or GFCI to function as intended .