Moentrol 3285- no cold water

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by ryan_m83, Oct 5, 2006.

  1. ryan_m83

    ryan_m83 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Hi all, just wanted to say this site has a ton of useful info especially for a rookie like me. Heres my problem. The upstairs shower in my house rarely gets used, dont think its been on in the last year. Having company stay for a week and i thought id check it out to see if it works. All i get is hot water. I replaced the cartridge and it made no change. It was working fine a year or so ago when it was last used. And yes the water is turned on to it. So from what ive read from other posts it could either be the cold check-stop or balancing spool. If so which one should i replace and how. Oh and the faucet is the one you pull out to turn on.

    Thanks,
    Ryan
     
  2. dubldare

    dubldare Plumber/Gasfitter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Occupation:
    Plumber/Gasfitter
    Location:
    MN/ND
    The balancing spool frequently 'locks' on these faucets when they are not used periodically.

    If you remove the handle and trim plate, you will find a large, straight bladed screw head. This is the balancing spool.

    Sometimes simply removing the spool and pounding it in your hands will restore the movement of the inner slug. It should move freely, by gravity. If this doesn't work, carefully remove the slug and clean it with nothing coarser than a scotchbrite pad. If you use something too coarse, you will marr the finish and cause nothing but problems. A very light coating of heat-proof grease will help with lubrication.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2017
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  4. ryan_m83

    ryan_m83 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    hey dubldare thanks for the reply! As far as getting the spool out is there any tips? ive tried just about anything but its seized in there really good. Is there maybe a special tool for it? Thanks for the help!
     
  5. ryan_m83

    ryan_m83 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    oh and another thing i forgot to add is that the main faucet(not the shower head) drips about a drip every 10 seconds. Its been doing this for a while not sure if it could be related to the bad spool.
     
  6. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    You probably need to replace the cartridge if it is leaking.

    You've already got the handle and trim plate off. Turn off the water to the shower, remove the clip, and pull the cartridge. Once you pull the cartridge, it may be easier to get at the balancing spool.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2006
  7. ryan_m83

    ryan_m83 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    thing is i just replaced the cartridge yesterday with a new one. It was slowly leaking with the old one in, now the drip seems to be getting worse. In a min im gonna pull the new one out and put it in again. Is there anyway there could be some corrotion inside where the cartridge goes stopping it from sealing?
     
  8. ryan_m83

    ryan_m83 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    heres a pic of what im dealing with.

    Ryan
     

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  9. shaolin_dragon

    shaolin_dragon New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Location:
    VA
    what you can do, is before inserting the cart, get a solution of 50/50 warm water and white vinegar, and an old toothbrush, then clean out the valve as best you can. also, flushing the valve helps clear debris from inside. now, if there was buildup inside the valve, it may have already caused damage to the cartridge o-rings. if you clean the valve, and it still leaks, then you might have to get a new cart. if you are the original owner of the faucet, and it was installed in the mid 90's, then call 1-800-BUY-MOEN and they will send a free cart
     
  10. ryan_m83

    ryan_m83 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Well i got it fixed. After trying and trying finally got the spool loose. Took it out and it was slightly stuck, so after playing with it and using a little pick to scrape some debris outta it, made sure it went up and down easily, put it in and voila it works perfectly and with no drips. Thanks for all the replys guys. I love this site!

    [​IMG]

    1 Check Stops Spring-driven gaskets at the valve inlets prevent high-pressure hot water from crossing the valve into a cold supply line or vice versa. (Hot water is at higher pressure in recirculation systems.) Screws in the stops shut off hot and cold lines at the shower for work on the valve cartridge.

    2 Pressure-Balancing Spool Hot and cold streams slide a graphite-composite piston in response to fluctuating hot and cold water pressure. In 0.1 seconds, the piston (inside the chrome sleeve) seals or opens inlets to maintain balanced pressure between the two flows, which are still unmixed. Lab tests to monitor internal movement show the piston constantly vibrating back and forth.

    3 Cartridge Pulling the shower handle slides the cartridge forward, opening two inlets to let hot and cold water enter and converge. Turning the handle opens one inlet as it closes the other, allowing users to adjust the temperature.

    4 Temperature Limit Stop Screwed into the cartridge's rod, this stop prevents a child from fully opening the valve to a scalding-hot setting
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2016
  11. I love pizza

    I love pizza New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    I agree with a couple posts on here. I have experienced this same issue before and its typically the case of either rarely used spare bedrooms or vacation homes. I think what happens is the mineral content in the water will form around the spool and cause it to freeze. The key is when you remove the spool, you should be able to easily shake it and it should rattle, just like a spray paint can does. In your case, it probably won't.
    When you remove the spool, you can pop off the bottom cap it has 3 little holes in it. The stainless steel inner spool is inside. This inner spool will either fall out or you'll have to draw it out with a flat bladed screwdriver. Rub the spool with some emory cloth and stick it back into the spool shell, there is not right or wrong way to put it in, snap the 3 hole'd cap back on and shake the entire spool, at this point it should rattle nice and easy. The key is the rattle, when the spool is stuck it literally is blocking one of the inlet ports hence no flow. The spool's job is to balance the pressure and therefore always be free moving. Now to fix the leak I agree about the seals on the cartridge being the culprit. The most likely have a minute nick or scratch on them. There is a repair kit that just includes the seals and its a 92451 part number. The 1225 will get you the seals too, but you don't necessarily need a whole new cartridge. You might want to stick your finger in the valve prior to putting the cartridge in to make sure there are no rough edges in there that could damage the seals. Its also wise to slide the cartridge into the valve in its proper position first instead of sliding it in and then spinning it around in the valve, you probably didn't do that, but just general advice to prevent friction on the seals.

    My 2 cents.

    update----I wrote my response and then saw you fixed it. COOL BEANS
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2006
  12. ryan_m83

    ryan_m83 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Very good post I Love Pizza, Im sure someone else will benefit from the usefull information!! Thanks

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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2013
  13. Koblog

    Koblog New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2017
    Location:
    Arizona
    I too had/have a stuck Moen 1423 balancing spool in my Moen 3330 series shower valve. It's an M-PACT model with lower handle for push/pull on/off and rotation for temp control and it has an upper diverter valve to send water to the wall and/or rain shower heads.

    I was getting only hot water.

    Using the largest flat-blade screwdriver I had, I successfully broke loose the brass cap with the large slot in it but the stainless body stayed inside the valve, stuck fast. After looking at the cutaway shot above, I felt I could get a hook through one of the passage holes and pull the spool body out.

    I fashioned a right angle hook from 1/8" steel wire by placing the wire in my vise and pounding 1/2" over to create the 90-degree hook. The hook needs to be about 3/8" from back of wire to end of hook. I made the hook too long the first time and had to cut off about 1/8" to get it short enough to insert into the spool. Hopefully I can upload pictures.

    I put the hook into the spool body and grasped the wire with some Visegrips. Pulling straight out, the stuck o-rings released the spool from the valve body and the spool fell onto the floor of the shower.

    The black inner core is really stuck inside the spool and not loose at all. I'm soaking it in LimeAway but it's not budging. May have to buy a new one: $57 online.

    After some soaking and still no movement, and having nothing to lose, I pried the stainless end cap off, set the spool on my vise with the jaws open just enough to catch the shoulders, but not tightening the vise, and then gently drifted the inner core out of the stainless spool, using a plastic or dowel drift. The black core broke free.

    I was able to clean the inner surface of the stainless spool and the outer surface of the black core. I also honed the inner metal surface with Flitz polish on a rag over a dowel. I then opened the vise jaws and pressed the whole assembly back together -- snapping the stainless cap on one end, the black core inside the stainless spool and the brass cap with the slot on the other end.

    The spool now operated as new. I applied some silicone grease on all the o-rings and slipped the spool into its hole and tightened the brass cap. No leaks and the spool now allows cold and hot water to flow.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2017
  14. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
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