Delta Multichoice 14 hot water issue

[Reach4]

Symptom- Have to turn handle almost all the way up to get any hot water, and by the time I do get hot water the pressure starts dropping. I have replaced the cartridge with two others and it does not fix it.

If you quickly turn the handle "almost all the way up", does the flow diminish as the hot makes its way to the cartridge, or is the flow restricted at that position, regardless of how hot the arriving water is?

Another test, if there is doubt, would be to turn off (or vacation setting) the water heater at least overnight. When the water from the WH is cool, do you get more flow?

 

[rodKNOCK]

Thinking of simple tests... one is to turn on the hot water from the lavatory. Turn on the shower to hot. Does the flow from the lavatory drop noticeably?

If yes, next test would be to measure the pressure at the drain of the water heater. Does that drop much when you put the shower on hot?

I am guessing neither of these will show much drop. It sure sounds like some kind of thermal thingy at the cartridge is reducing hot flow. But that seems to be disproved by you having 3 cartridges all with the same symptom.

there are 2 sinks in there. with just the hot on, or just the cold, or both. 1 sink both sinks, the pressure very noticeably fluctuates in both sinks with turning the shower on or off

I also notice the same in my other bathroom with 1 sink although the drop doesnt seem as drastic

the water heater drain was at 65psi and dropped to 55 after i turned the shower on

If you quickly turn the handle "almost all the way up", does the flow diminish as the hot makes its way to the cartridge, or is the flow restricted at that position, regardless of how hot the arriving water is?

Another test, if there is doubt, would be to turn off (or vacation setting) the water heater at least overnight. When the water from the WH is cool, do you get more flow?

if I turn the handle up to that point, pressure drops, all the time

I could try that this weekend sometime

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

the water heater drain was at 65psi and dropped to 55 after i turned the shower on

Now try the same test, but with the gauge on an outdoor hose spigot.

 

[rodKNOCK]

Now try the same test, but with the gauge on an outdoor hose spigot.

drops about 2 psi. 65 to 63

 

[rodKNOCK]

Now try the same test, but with the gauge on an outdoor hose spigot.

clearly Im no artist but I did my best. Do you think the restrictiveness of the plumbing might be causing an issue?

 

[Reach4]

the water heater drain was at 65psi and dropped to 55 after i turned the shower on

drops about 2 psi. 65 to 63

That says you are not getting much drop on the service from the city before the tee to the spigot.

That says that you get an additional 8 psi drop from where the tee to the outside spigot connects and the WH.

What is in between beside piping? Softener, or filter of some sort?

I am not saying that a 10 psi drop to the WH explains your shower symptoms. But it all adds up.

there are 2 sinks in there. with just the hot on, or just the cold, or both. 1 sink both sinks, the pressure very noticeably fluctuates in both sinks with turning the shower on or off

The pressure drop you see is with just hot from the lav. Maybe try 4 permutations: hot from lav, cold from lav. Full hot on shower. Full cold on shower./

clearly Im no artist but I did my best. Do you think the restrictiveness of the plumbing might be causing an issue?

I don't think so.

I am not sure what overall combination of symptoms says.

Let's review that.

Symptom- Have to turn handle almost all the way up to get any hot water, and by the time I do get hot water the pressure starts dropping. I have replaced the cartridge with two others and it does not fix it.

So is the main symptom that the water that comes out of the shower is not hot enough? The pressure dropping-symptom is or is not not a big difference in flow gpm from the showerhead between hot and cold setting?

 

[rodKNOCK]

That says you are not getting much drop on the service from the city before the tee to the spigot.

That says that you get an additional 8 psi drop from where the tee to the outside spigot connects and the WH.

What is in between beside piping? Softener, or filter of some sort?

I am not saying that a 10 psi drop to the WH explains your shower symptoms. But it all adds up.



The pressure drop you see is with just hot from the lav. Maybe try 4 permutations: hot from lav, cold from lav. Full hot on shower. Full cold on shower./

I don't think so.

I am not sure what overall combination of symptoms says.

Let's review that.

So is the main symptom that the water that comes out of the shower is not hot enough? The pressure dropping-symptom is or is not not a big difference in flow gpm from the showerhead between hot and cold setting?

there is a water softener. I would need to get back under the house to see if there is anything else. Which I can do but it is hard to get to the area where the pipes enter the crawlspace

the main problem is that there is a very small window of water suitable temp wise for showering. The water does get hot enough after that small window it is just straight hot water at lower pressure.

and, that is with the temp adjustment on the cartridge turned all the way up. In fact I think I have it more than all the way up. its literally turned as far as it will turn, and doesnt drop back into place but still works.

sorry for the pictures, I just think it helps what Im saying

 

[Reach4]

I wish I could be more helpful. I don't have a good solution for you.

I like your 1.png drawing.

 

[John Gayewski]

Your have something in your piping. The coulping shouldn't be enough of a restriction to make a noticeable difference. Sometimes with push fit connections there is a stiffener that gets cocked sideways or is loose and flapping around.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

I have had this issue before with Delta 1700 faucets and I have made a fool of myself
trying to figure out what was going on..... and I finally figured out what was happening
and I will pass this knowledge onto you ......

Now Listen.. closely
there is a baffle or a venturi fitting that sits above the cartridge in the brass body of the faucet
that diverts the water up and down.... it is literally seated behind the brass threads and pipe
that goes up to the shower head......

sometimes this "diverter" gets plugged up with debris and the flow is restricted and
then the pressure balanced cartridge starts to totally freak out and it stops working properly......

you simply have to take a small cold chisel or flat head screwdriver
and a hammer and then put tip of the cold chisel up against
those brass threads at the top of the faucet body and
then give it about a dozen light smacks with your hammer...
this should dislodge the sediment that is stuck in the venturi fitting..
if it does not work then hit it harder again a few times.....

I personally have saved myself having to tear out a 1700 faucet before that would
not function properly and a day of misery repairing the tile and wall by just smacking
the top body of the faucet for a minute or two and the problem simply corrected
itself
.

I know that this probably sounds like a bunch of Democratic horse crap
but I have walked people through this process over the phone before
and they thought I was trying to hose them too....

but then it immediately corrected the problem and they were amazed....

If this works you can give me a good review on Google please.....
https://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/


even though this might just be a shower only faucet, their is a good chance
that the venturi diverter is installed into this faucet.....

 

[rodKNOCK]

I wish I could be more helpful. I don't have a good solution for you.

I like your 1.png drawing.

I appreciate the effort, Im close to ripping this rough in valve out and putting in a new (different) one. at the very least that will rule it out.

Your have something in your piping. The coulping shouldn't be enough of a restriction to make a noticeable difference. Sometimes with push fit connections there is a stiffener that gets cocked sideways or is loose and flapping around.

the problem was there before the push connections, I just put those in

I have had this issue before with Delta 1700 faucets and I have made a fool of myself
trying to figure out what was going on..... and I finally figured out what was happening
and I will pass this knowledge onto you ......

Now Listen.. closely
there is a baffle or a venturi fitting that sits above the cartridge in the brass body of the faucet
that diverts the water up and down.... it is literally seated behind the brass threads and pipe
that goes up to the shower head......

sometimes this "diverter" gets plugged up with debris and the flow is restricted and
then the pressure balanced cartridge starts to totally freak out and it stops working properly......

you simply have to take a small cold chisel or flat head screwdriver
and a hammer and then put tip of the cold chisel up against
those brass threads at the top of the faucet body and
then give it about a dozen light smacks with your hammer...
this should dislodge the sediment that is stuck in the venturi fitting..
if it does not work then hit it harder again a few times.....

I personally have saved myself having to tear out a 1700 faucet before that would
not function properly and a day of misery repairing the tile and wall by just smacking
the top body of the faucet for a minute or two and the problem simply corrected
itself
.

I know that this probably sounds like a bunch of Democratic horse crap
but I have walked people through this process over the phone before
and they thought I was trying to hose them too....

but then it immediately corrected the problem and they were amazed....

If this works you can give me a good review on Google please.....
https://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/


even though this might just be a shower only faucet, their is a good chance
that the venturi diverter is installed into this faucet.....

are you saying it is in this area? this is tub and shower

the shower is being used right now but I will check this right away.

do you think this still applies if I the problem is still there even without the cartridge?

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

I appreciate the effort, Im close to ripping this rough in valve out and putting in a new (different) one. at the very least that will rule it out.



the problem was there before the push connections, I just put those in



are you saying it is in this area? this is tub and shower

the shower is being used right now but I will check this right away.

do you think this still applies if I the problem is still there even without the cartridge?

Dont change the faucet just yet.
the cartridge wont work correctly if their is a restriction in that diverter..

I once ran new pex water lines to a delta 1700 faucet one time thinking that it was in the older pipes
only to make a fool of myself...... and then I changed out the faucet..
This was back in about 1999... I took the Delta faucet I removed and cut it open to find the debris stuck in that spot.....

Mostly, we have had more issues with rusty older galvanized pipes that seem to have rust that flakes
off the pipes and get up into the diverter... some places get sand stuck up in it too

I would Just give it a few hard wacks first at that special spot up on the pipe right above the brass body
and see if that does not resolve the problem..... it should all just flush out once you do this

Like I stated I have gotten a number of folks out of
troubles this way over the years who thought I was pulling their leg....

 

[John Gayewski]

the problem was there before the push connections, I just put those in

Dude that was just an example. Also saying if you have them elsewhere or can be a problem. There's something in there somewhere like I said the first time a long time ago.

 

[rodKNOCK]

Dont change the faucet just yet.
the cartridge wont work correctly if their is a restriction in that diverter..

I once ran new pex water lines to a delta 1700 faucet one time thinking that it was in the older pipes
only to make a fool of myself...... and then I changed out the faucet..
This was back in about 1999... I took the Delta faucet I removed and cut it open to find the debris stuck in that spot.....

Mostly, we have had more issues with rusty older galvanized pipes that seem to have rust that flakes
off the pipes and get up into the diverter... some places get sand stuck up in it too

I would Just give it a few hard wacks first at that special spot up on the pipe right above the brass body
and see if that does not resolve the problem..... it should all just flush out once you do this

Like I stated I have gotten a number of folks out of
troubles this way over the years who thought I was pulling their leg....

I got nothing out of it. then i took it apart and hit it a little more, a little harder and still nothing

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

I got nothing out of it. then i took it apart and hit it a little more, a little harder and still nothing

Sorry to hear this ...... I guess you are changeing out the faucet

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

I got nothing out of it. then i took it apart and hit it a little more, a little harder and still nothing

I never thought to ask you, but I assume that you have already gone out and bought yourself a new delta cartridge for this faucet and changed it out to see if that resolved your problem????