Legit or not?

[TonyBagadonutz]

Hi,
Is it legal(code wise) to have a sink, a shower/tub and toilet each piped to a 4" line for dainage - then one 4" pipe run up for venting ?

Kind of like this?

|
| 4" for vent
|
|
| .....tub ..........sink..........toilet
|____|________|________|_______ 4" down (8') to connections in slab


Is the venting "legal"? (The 4" riser is actually between the sink and toilet - I couldn't "draw" it that way)

 

[Clayton]

legit

Yes it is possible to connect them all to the 4" vent. It would depend on the distances from the the vent to each fixture, the actual installation methonds of the pipe and fittings and your specific code requirements for it to be done legally.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[TonyBagadonutz]

Yes it is possible to connect them all to the 4" vent.

This is considered "wet venting"?

It would depend on the distances from the the vent to each fixture, the actual installation methonds of the pipe and fittings and your specific code requirements for it to be done legally.

The fixtures are all attached to the 4" line right beneath the floor, all the connections are made within a 5' section that heads on out to the street.
The toilet has a lead bend, a 90 then onto the 4", a few inches of 4", then a "T" for the venting(up through 1st and 2nd floors*¹, then to roof), a few more inches to another "t" with sink , then a foot or so to another "t" (not quite on it's side, a nipple, 90, nipple, trap then tub drain - about 1' of pipe), then a few more inches of 4", and a 90 down wall - 8' or so - to under slab and connections to street.


This question is in regards to my previous post in the remodel forum (Something doesn't seem right... )

*¹The second floor arangement is "similar" in that all the fixtures dump into that same 4" riser from 1st floor - with NO additional venting. This, I assume, is WRONG. Is that a correct "assumption"?

 

[Terry]

Each fixture needs it's own vent, everything but the toilet needs it's own p-trap.
Each vent can tie together at 6" above the flood level of the highest fixture.
In most case, you would just drill the studs at 42" from the floor for the revent.

 

[hj]

vent

As long as this is the only, or highest, bathroom on the 4" line, you can do it, but not the way you indicate. The 3" or 4" riser has to come up from the horizontal line. Then you can use a side inlet sanitary tee for the toilet with the tub connected to the 2" side inlet. Then, after installing a cleanout tee above the floor, you can put a tee in the riser for the lavatory and then pipe the drain sideways to the sink, as long as you do not exceed the distance for the pipe size you are using.

 

[Clayton]

I can not follow your piping discription very well, but it doesn't sound like it is done correctly to me. The only way to do it with the single vent is like HJ described or by using a double fixture fitting instead of the side inlet tee and connecting the lav. into the vent in the wall. But as HJ said you can not have the fixtures above draining down this vent.

 

[TonyBagadonutz]

Terry
thanks for the reply.
This 1st flr. arrangement is existing in finished walls - this will be changed out a later date. The real issue is the 2nd floor.
All the fixtures from the 2nd floor dump into the 4" riser that is the venting for the 1st flr bth. I think this is some sort of violation. As I am completely rehabbing the 2nd flr. bth, I think NOW is the time to make these connections proper AND if possible, make allowances for corrections to the 1st flr (which will be rehabbed next summer).

I've been studying your drawing for about 2 days now, and it is just starting to make sense to me now (LOL), but the stumbling block is applying your drawing to my location. As I stated, the first floor is completely finished.

What I am thinking (please stop me if I am way out beyond the left field fence), is to attach the 2nd floor fixtures to that 4" riser AND attach a seperate 2" riser from the 1st flr wall cavity to the 4" riser. When the time comes to rehab the 1st floor, I will have a seperate vent riser available to the tie into these fixtures. Does this sound even remotely feasible/logical/ legal?

 

[TonyBagadonutz]

I can not follow your piping discription very well, but it doesn't sound like it is done correctly to me.

I'll take some pics - they will describe the situation far better than me.

 

[Terry]

The vent from the lower floor shouldn't have any waste put into it.

The waste from the second floor should dump into it's own pipe, that can connect downline from the lower floor waste line.

The "venting" from the "first" floor can tie into the 4" vent stack at 42" above the second floor.

 

[TonyBagadonutz]

The "venting" from the second floor can tie into the 4" vent stack at 42" above the second floor.

Should that read :The "venting" from the FIRST floor can tie into the 4" vent stack at 42" above the second floor.

Am I learning anything?

 

[Terry]

Yes,

You're learning.

 

[Clayton]

venting

What I am thinking (please stop me if I am way out beyond the left field fence), is to attach the 2nd floor fixtures to that 4" riser AND attach a seperate 2" riser from the 1st flr wall cavity to the 4" riser. When the time comes to rehab the 1st floor, I will have a seperate vent riser available to the tie into these fixtures. Does this sound even remotely feasible/logical/ legal?

This is a good idea, however if you are having this inspected, the inspector may want you to install a seperate waste stack now and just utilize the current 4" stack as a vent.

Anyway, following Terry's DWV diagram is the best way to go. Trying to use a common vent for multiple fixtures or getting into wet venting without having a complete grasp on venting or your local codes can get you into trouble fast. Last thing you want is the inspector to reject all your hard work. It is best to individualy vent each fixture and revent them as in the diagram.

 

[TonyBagadonutz]

there are too many obstacles to get a decent photo of the basement connections, but overall, this is what I am looking at (red is vent, blue is waste - sorry for graffiting up your pic Terry)

Are we all in agreement that this present setup is wrong?

 

[Clayton]

yep

yep, its wrong

 

[TonyBagadonutz]

That is Wrong!!!!!!!!!

I would just start over with something that bad.

I would LOVE to...but I can't. First floor is active - very much so with 2 and 5 year old kids

If we could move out for a few months will I fix this, we would - but that's NOT likely to happen

Things being what they are, we get to live with the renovation(s). The second floor bath(the whole floor for that matter) is completely gutted - just like a fish.
I don't need to get the 2nd floor bth active right away - I can prep all the stubs and connections (with some guidance) and put in all the fixtures. I don't "plan" on using them until AFTER I have the wall opened on 1st floor and make the NEW connections seperate from flr 1. It will be a logistical headache, but doable - if the family coperates with me.

Does this drawing look "right"? (NOTE: The red vent from 1st floor ties in to venting from 2nd floor at/over 42")

EDIT: Forget to add a clean out...I will add one in basement area.

 

[Terry]

It's closer,

I don't see the vent for the toilets.

 

[TonyBagadonutz]

It's closer,

I don't see the vent for the toilets.

The red line coming right off the 4" horizontal run...the layout would like this:
closest flange/90 to a tee, on the 4" line that the tee is in, a riser heads up for venting.

 

[TonyBagadonutz]

Here are some pics/drawings of what the 2nd flr looks like....and what I would like it to look like.

I think the general consensus has been that I will drop a 2" (maybe 2 2") from 2nd flr. to first, to allow for the future rehab to 1st flr. bath. By dropping 2 lines down for venting (one on either side of existing 4" stack) I can avoid having to cross pipes within the wall cavities...but only if this plan is legal. I am sure they make a fitting to accomplish this (at least I hope so)

2nd flr existing venting.

2nd flr existing drainage. Is/are those wye's allowed to be like that? Is that what is considered on it's back?

Overview of both floors. The blue lines represent drainage and will be below floor/overflow heights, the red lines represent the venting from 1st to 2nd - where it kind of branches out on 2nd flr is the prep for the future rehab., the purple represent the venting for 2nd flr - fun over 42" and tied back into stack.


Any comments suggestions(other drawing a little better)?