Issues with water heater, please help

Discussion in 'Water Heater Forum, Tanks' started by s10010001, Aug 16, 2019.

  1. s10010001

    s10010001 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2019
    Location:
    Texas
    Hey everyone, we're 2 months into our new home and getting things fixed up! Its our first home on well water and it needed some work. I installed out new CSV setup and its working freaking great. Making 55psi consistently. I also installed a new whole house filter system with a pair of 4.5" filters and the house already had a pretty new water softener that is function correctly.


    Problems with Water heater:
    1. It seems to take longer than it should to get hot, even in our Master shower where the water heater literally is directly above us!

    2. Sometimes I still get some smells out of the hot water only. Like there is something nasty in the tank. The color water is really really good.

    3. I don't think we're getting full pressure on the hot water, or almost like its mixing with cold before it gets to the faucet or shower valves. The water gets plenty hot in the shower eventually, and it kinda of fluctuates very middle. I noticed, my wife doesn't seem to. Now, in the shower we basically put it to full hot and get a proper temp shower, it really should get hotter on full IMO but its livable



    Inspecting what I have:
    There is a check valve just sitting on top the unit un hooked... there is rust buildup inside. At some point someone hacked in a basic 10x2" whole house filter after the booster pump. But unfortunately after we moved in when I was pulling it all to install my new CSV, jet pump and whole house filters I found the Filter housing was empty!!!. so yes.. straight well water was going into the whole house (thru softener). I assume there was a problem and that's what prompted the house filter and removal of the check valve. We actually replaced the dish water, all the faucets and the washing machine. So only the water heater was exposed to this un filtered water. Id rather not deal with replacing that, I'm running up to max budget in the "house repair column", But I can if needed.


    Questions:
    1. What should I do about the check valve? do it need one? hot or cold side? Could this be related to my problems?

    2. Im going to flush the unit, I guess that's a good start. Anything else I should look into?

    3. What exactly do the little tanks do I see on some water heaters? something for the pressure I assume? Their cheap, should I add one? my unit is in the attic so I do want to be mindful of how many fittings im adding up there.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    Generally, a well system only has a check valve down near the pump. Often, the existence of one up on top is an indication that they didn't want to pull the pump to fix it.

    All modern shower valves have a means to limit how hot they can get. It might just be that that needs to be tweaked. How that is done depends on the brand and model.

    But, there are some single handle valves that, when they're worn, can allow the hot/cold to cross over between the supplies. The water will take the path of least resistance, so, that might mean you're drawing from the cold line at least partially when trying to get hot elsewhere. If you have any single handle valves, shut their cold supply off and see if things improve. By doing this one at a time, you can isolate it to the offending valve. All it may need is a new cartridge.

    Also, some people put Y's on the washing machine supply...that can create a cross-0ver, depending on what you're doing with them.

    If your water heater has a tempering valve, that could give you some weird results, but often when they fail, they stop tempering, and your hot gets hotter rather than colder.
     
  3. Sponsor

    Sponsor Paid Advertisement

     
  4. s10010001

    s10010001 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2019
    Location:
    Texas
    Yea I have a new check valve down in the well house between the storage tank so that’s cool if I do t need another one on the WH.

    I will look up my shower valves and see what I can do there. I didn’t know that about the valves.

    as for the single handle valves, I only have 3, the kitchen and both showers, so troubleshooting that will be easy, thanks for the tip on that. The sink is brand new, the showers are not. I didn’t think about those before, so not “everything” is new.

    No Y on the washing machine.

    I will need to read up on tempering valves, first I have hear of them, not sure if my WH has one. It would have to be inside the unit there is nothing but pipe/hose on the outside.
    EDIT: no tempering valve, I learned up and confirmed.


    Thanks for your time, I’m gonna go ahead and drain then flush my WH since it needs to be done anyway. Then do some troubleshooting with the provided tips. I will post back after.

    *The home inspector also noted some things about the WH my wife wants me to fix up, like a better base, straps and fix up the drain stuff like that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  5. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Occupation:
    Semi-Retired
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    A check valve at the water heater is usually part of a recirc system loop. If you don't have a recirc, you don't need a checkvalve at the HWT. If there is a recirc loop, without a check valve, it will blend the hot and cold.
     
  6. s10010001

    s10010001 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2019
    Location:
    Texas
    Ohh excellent, thanks. I was considering a hot water recirculation setup but haven’t researched pros and cons yet, saved for a later date.


    So my water heater was pretty clogged up, nothing was draining. With some ingenuity, a coat hanger and a lot to towels I got it in clogged and flowing strong. It clogged up 3 time while draining but it got it empty. I refilled it with cold and am flushing it again now.

    look at that nasty water... this is after the first drain too. Gonna keep flushing this until it’s clear.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Occupation:
    Sensitivity trainer.. and plumber of mens souls
    Location:
    indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
    Look....

    You just need to tear that peice of junk out and install either a larger water heater or another 50

    Its a 2008 for one thing thats 11 years old, second things its a whirlpool....
    and third thing it was installed by a complete dumbass....
    your pressure problems could be in the galvanized nipples used to double up the water lines

    You need a new heater, new pan and bricks to raise the heater off the floor... and better water connectors on top and also the t+p valvve drain is
    seriously incorrect......... looks like the 220 volt was rigged up too...

    With the new heater you will want to take out the Anode rod if you are on a well and the sulfer small will go away
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
    toolaholic likes this.
  8. s10010001

    s10010001 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2019
    Location:
    Texas

    Yea, after dealing with flushing it and constantly unplugging the drain I am starting to agree its time for a new unit. I got it all flushed the best I could, and fixed up the install but, yea new unit time. The 220 was funny, I fixed it up, found the grommet on the floor lol, so that good now. Also I fixed the TP drain so theres no being in it.


    So questions for the new one
    1. Looking at this unit I can go pickup at Home Deplot right now. thoughts?
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-G...tion-and-Auto-Shutoff-XE50M12CS55U1/309627116

    2. The galvanized nipples, what is wrong there? rust clogging?

    3. Why bricks? this is in the attic. I also ripped out the old floor board, installed more 2x4 cross beams and then double layered new ply wood base. (1 3/4" ply 1 1/2" OSB I had on hand)


    4. Mind giving me some more info on the Anode rod removal? whites the deal with that. what's the impact of doing that?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    IF your new WH has a conventional anode, there will be a 1-1/16 hex head for the anode. An impact wrench is the best tool, but if new and full of water, a breaker bar may break it loose. The ideal plug is a 3/4 NPT brass plug. Some water heaters recess the hex head making it unreachable with an impact socket. Consider anode access while shopping.

    Alternatively, a powered anode would go in the same hole, and can protect and still not contribute to H2S.

    Some have a combination anode . https://www.waterheaterrescue.com/Longevity/lingopages/combo-anode.html There you will have to pull the hot nipple, and put in a different nipple.
     
  10. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Occupation:
    Sensitivity trainer.. and plumber of mens souls
    Location:
    indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
    you should not get that Rheem heater with the led panel on the front of it.. we
    have had nothing but fits with that shorting out and going bad very quickly
    ....

    I suggest that you Just get a simple , standard electric water heater... a 9 year unit .... no more

    The galvanized nipples they have those flex lines doubled up with can lime up over time....
    they do work but I would use brass nipples if you absolutely have to rig it up the same way...

    The pan is self evident... the bricks keep the heater out of the pan and out of any kind of rusting
    issues while sitting in the pan... it stays dry sitting above the base inches above,,
    also 4 bricks will distribute the weight of the heater much better in the pan .

    If you get a Rheem heater you will need a special sized socket and heavy duty ratchet wrench to get that anode rod out of
    the Rheem heater ......they are a bitch to get out and sometimes you have to even melt the plastic sleeve out of the port on the top of the heater just to get your ratchen wrench to go down on the nut... Lots of fun here. and have had to do this many, many times... ......


    The Bradford White heaters have the anode rod moulded into the nipple
    on the hot side of the heater which is much easier to get out and cut off......


     
  11. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Check out the "lifetime" electric water heaters with a stainless steel or non-metallic tank. I think they have no anode. Do your research. I could be mistaken.

    I got started by looking for an electric unit similar to the respected HTC Pheonix Light Duty gas unit. They have a stainless tank, and no anode. It is also rebranded, and sold and supported by Westinghouse as a Westinghouse product. There were indeed what seem to be HTC and Westginghouse parallels. I see Rheem has the non-metalic Marathon, which I would think would not have an anode.

    If you did buy one of these premium units, I expect you would want to flush debris on some schedule.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
  12. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Occupation:
    Sensitivity trainer.. and plumber of mens souls
    Location:
    indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
    You can get a Rheem MARATHON lifetime 50 gallon heater and they do not have an anode rod in them
    and they have SS heavy duty elements..... probably cost you about 700 bucks... We have put a number of
    them in and they seem to do great..... and lifetime warranty is good too

    flushing them every 3 to 6 months is
    advisable


    [​IMG]


     
    s10010001 likes this.
  13. s10010001

    s10010001 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2019
    Location:
    Texas
    Well, I got what they had at Home Depot. I ended up with the Rheem unit with the little buttons. Funny you say that about the lcd one having issues because the one with the LCD was fancy looking but it was on sale at HD and out of stock. The Guy said they aren’t getting that one anymore and they changed over to this newer Rheem unit. No LCD, just buttons, but still has the leak detection ring on the bottom and WiFi to tell me of a leak. Also let’s me control the temp, and see how much water is in it any any given time. They also had the basic one in 6 or 9 year, probably should have got that one, was 120$ cheaper. I got lured into the 12year I guess. We shall see how it goes I guess. It will only be getting filtered soften water so hopefully it holds up.

    I did put in new water lines that fit without doubling up. I still need to plumb the TP drain and pan drain. But I’m taking a break for a bit before I go back up there. I confirmed I can get to the Anode no problem, but it looks like from the manual it’s aluminum, shouldn’t that be ok then?

    here’s some pic, including one of the Galvanized lines all plugged up. Glad those are not in the mix anymore.

    Carried that think up the ladder myself too haha, like a boss! (Or a dumbly, but it’s done haha)
     

    Attached Files:

  14. s10010001

    s10010001 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2019
    Location:
    Texas
    Btw, the hot water pressure is the same as the cold now, water gets hot much faster... I’m sure it’s cleaner too haha.

    Thanks for all the help guys. I’ll post up when I get all the details finished later to confirm I did it all right!
     
  15. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Occupation:
    Sensitivity trainer.. and plumber of mens souls
    Location:
    indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
    Looks ok to me.... you probably should have removed that rod while it was on its side with someone
    sitting on the heater holding it firmly..... It takes 2 men and a boy to get it out....

    good luck
     
  16. s10010001

    s10010001 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2019
    Location:
    Texas
    My m18 1/2 impact should do the trick, it rips 145ft/lb lugs off my 1-ton with easy. Fingers crossed.....
     
  17. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Occupation:
    Sensitivity trainer.. and plumber of mens souls
    Location:
    indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of

    We have stripped out a few of those nuts , it takes a perfect socket to match up
    and our sockets used to work fine but we have worn them out......
    just be sure the socket matches perfectly or it will round out that nut
    then it is not pretty....

    also someone has to hold the heater while you attempt this feat usually with
    a cheater bar on the wrench

    good luck
     
  18. s10010001

    s10010001 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2019
    Location:
    Texas
    We will see if it beats out my current personal toughest nut on record... the rusted on 1-7/8 wheel hub castle nut from a Dodge Ram... That took a 3/4 Drive cheater bar + the wight of the truck lowering onto the bar to break her free! haha. but, I won't have my full garage to work, ill be in the attic so this should be fun.

    I am reading up on the anode and it seems like it protects the unit a lot. Is this something that is really not needed on well water? it just seems like there are side effects to not running one. Like, no odor, but half the unit life?

    And yes, with more time to plan, the next unit I replace will be a lifetime one. Make zero sense to install one that's not composite or stainless, even at 2-3 times the price. A health water system is kinda a requirement.
     
  19. phog

    phog Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Location:
    Rochester NY
    You could always take Reach's suggestion above and go with a powered anode such as Ceranode or Corro-protec. Instead of being sacrificial that melts away over time (like the anode that came in your tank), the powered anodes impress an electric current across the system that stops the galvanic corrosion reaction. It never needs to be replaced & will not produce smells in well water systems. This is the same technology that is used to protect structural members in bridges. This way you get cathodic corrosion protection without having to deal with smells.
     
    s10010001 likes this.
  20. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    However note that the powered anodes will be larger above the WH than the sacrificial anodes.

    If your anode access looks like this, I expect you would have to cut away part of the WH to get that installed.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. s10010001

    s10010001 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2019
    Location:
    Texas
Similar Threads: Issues water
Forum Title Date
Water Heater Forum, Tanks Water Heater issues Jul 1, 2020
Water Heater Forum, Tanks Rheem Water Heater Vapor Sensor Issues Sep 5, 2017
Water Heater Forum, Tanks Questionable Installation Issues with new water heater Feb 20, 2015
Water Heater Forum, Tanks A few issues with my water heater... Feb 16, 2015
Water Heater Forum, Tanks Water Heater Electrical Connection Issues. Feb 11, 2015

Share This Page