How much play is there in setting the closet bolts in flange - can I pick up an extra inch from wall

[Berry]

So here is my dilemma - I had an Original Drake in black on order for 6 weeks with no end in site - and then I found a deal for a Drake II - CST454CUF in black for less money which I purchased (and cancelled the original Drake)

However I did not realize until now that for some reason, this bathroom has the water supply line coming up from the floor, not the wall. And it is about 2 inches out from the wall behind the left edge of the toilet and thus the Drake II will hit it as it there is only a 1 5/8" clearance from the wall at the toilet base. (The house was built in 1991 and the other 2 bathrooms have the supply coming out from the wall.

I am planning to have a plumber install this but want to have an idea in advance the best way to solve this. I searched some threads and saw two with different comments by Terry saying:

1. Moving the bolts............the horn on a TOTO at the outlet is 2-5/8" going into a 3" drain. That lets you shift the bowl 3/8" if the bolts are also moved. I sometimes install a repair ring to hold those if the flange is notched and if you have slots there, you can just move the bolts.

2. I'm thinking you have a 4" pipe going up to the closet flange. You can use a repair ring to offset the closet bolts and move the bowl out farther from the wall. You can pick up 1-1/4" by doing that.

I guess my question is twofold

1. Sounds like there is some play in spacing using the existing flange but maybe at best picking up 3/8"
2. With the second scenario, what repair ring would one use to offset the closet bolts and gain 1/1/4". Any pics of what this would look like working. I am having a hard time visualizing how a repair ring in the same position can allow enough offset to gain over an inch.

I am trying to see if I can avoid a solution (and the expense) of either having to move the supply line over a couple of inches (the floor is tiled and no easy access from underneath without cutting into the ceiling below which I don't want to do) or replacing the flange with an offset flange. These would be my two alternatives if I can't get an extra inch + using the existing flange or via a repair ring. I assume moving the supply line over a couple of inches would be challenging unless there is a way to easily just cut out that small portion of tile and subfloor to do the work and just patch it with a small piece of tile

Thanks

 

[Breplum]

If you want to keep the expected Drake then I think you need to go to the trouble of getting that water supply into the wall moved to a suitable spot with a new floor penetration.
Tile can be drilled with a diamond bit.
Forget offsetting the closet bolts because it is just too funky and iffy.

 

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[Berry]

If you want to keep the expected Drake then I think you need to go to the trouble of getting that water supply into the wall moved to a suitable spot with a new floor penetration.
Tile can be drilled with a diamond bit.
Forget offsetting the closet bolts because it is just too funky and iffy.

Thanks - if that is the case, how big of a hole would a plumber need to make in the tile / subfloor to move the water supply line a couple inches left. I attached a pic of the existing toilet - the new toilet sits much further back, 1 5/8" from the wall.

Can they do this just by cutting out a very small section or do they need more room to work to add a 90 degree elbow to jog it left 2 inches?

 

[Reach4]

Looks like lots of clearance in your photo. How does the toilet position in your photo relate to where the toilet would normally end up?

You might be able to get 1/4 to 3/8 offset right.

1/2 inch copper is 5/8 OD, so a new hole from the basement/crawlspace would have to be a little bigger than that.

You can get some space by removing that old escutcheon.

Maybe this could help: https://www.dahlvalve.com/products/...oilet-kits/skirted-toilet-kits-E33-2386-A.php

 

[Berry]

Looks like lots of clearance in your photo. How does the toilet position in your photo relate to where the toilet would normally end up?

You might be able to get 1/4 to 3/8 offset right.

1/2 inch copper is 5/8 OD, so a new hole from the basement/crawlspace would have to be a little bigger than that.

You can get some space by removing that old escutcheon.

Maybe this could help:

https://www.dahlvalve.com/products/...oilet-kits/skirted-toilet-kits-E33-2386-A.php

Sorry - I should have clarified the photo is of the existing toilet. The new Toto base would be much further back - 1 5/8" from the wall - and that pipe is like 2 1/2 to 3" out from the wall - so the base of the toilet will hit it

I thought about removing the old escutcheon and would do so - but even that won't create enough space. And I would be ok if I could get some offset to shift the toilet right but I think I would need more than 1/4 to 3/8". I suspect I need to offset the toilet 1" to 1 1/2" right - or move the supply line that amount left

I don't think the valve you showed would work because I need the pipe to bend below the floor tile line.

And this is on the second floor with a finished ceiling underneath. So i would much prefer they do the work from above rather than having to cut out part of a ceiling that is textured and hard to patch. I would be fine if they could just cut out a small say 1" by 3" section of tile and subfloor and attach an elbow under the floor line moving the line over. And then hopefully cover the hole partly with a new escutcheon, partly with the toilet base itself and the rest with some grout as it is in an area no one really will see

 

[Terry]

You can offset the Drake bowls by 3/8" on an inch. I've done it many times when needed.

 

[Reach4]

Sorry - I should have clarified the photo is of the existing toilet. The new Toto base would be much further back - 1 5/8" from the wall - and that pipe is like 2 1/2 to 3" out from the wall - so the base of the toilet will hit it

How about a photo of that new toilet placed against a wall the right amount, and a dime marking where the copper pipe would be. A US dime is a little bigger (0.705 inch) than the OD of your pipe. Looking at the line drawing at the bottom of https://terrylove.com/pdf/cst454cufg-specs.pdf doesn't make it clear that the pipe itself will interfere.

 

[Berry]

You can offset the Drake bowls by 3/8" on an inch. I've done it many times when needed.

Thanks. That is in any direction, correct - so I can offset the Drake II 3/8" to the right
I am not sure if that will be enough but that plus removing the escutcheon may make it close
I will try that first

I think worst case I would try to have a a small 3" by 3" piece of the tile and subfloor cut out and shift the water supply line an inch or two back and or to the left if that is doable working in that small of space from above

 

[Berry]

How about a photo of that new toilet placed against a wall the right amount, and a dime marking where the copper pipe would be. A US dime is a little bigger (0.705 inch) than the OD of your pipe. Looking at the line drawing at the bottom of https://terrylove.com/pdf/cst454cufg-specs.pdf doesn't make it clear that the pipe itself will interfere.

Thanks. I can't do that until the old toilet is out. Just based on my measurements and that drawing, the pipe will interfere unless I can offset the toilet enough to the right - or shift the supply line back and or to the left

 

[wwhitney]

Thanks. I can't do that until the old toilet is out.

If you have the new toilet on hand, with a bit of trouble you could trace the outline of the rear on paperboard or butcher paper or the like, then cut away the part that is the foot print of the current toilet, and put your tracing on the floor to see how if and how the current pipe interferes.

[Actually, maybe definitely use paper board, mark and punch the closet bolt holes, and just cut away the part of the tracing for which the existing toilet interferes above the level of the closet bolt caps. Then you can pop off the existing closet bolt caps and drop the template over the closet bolts to register it.]

To move that pipe, that minimum size hole a plumber would need would be big enough fit a fist holding a mini pipe cutter. I'm thinking 5" in diameter, maybe, but 6" or 7" would be easier. If you have any spare tile or can get one matching tile, best thing would be to remove the tile with the current hole, open up the subfloor, drill the new hole in the adjoining tile and do the plumbing, and then repair the subfloor and lay the new tile. If there' s any chance of matching the texture on the ceiling below, opening up from below is likely to be easier/quicker/cheaper.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

Thanks. That is in any direction, correct - so I can offset the Drake II 3/8" to the right
I am not sure if that will be enough but that plus removing the escutcheon may make it close
I will try that first

Use 1/4 inch closet bolts, rather than 5/16, to maximize your ability to slide right.

 

[Berry]

If you have the new toilet on hand, with a bit of trouble you could trace the outline of the rear on paperboard or butcher paper or the like, then cut away the part that is the foot print of the current toilet, and put your tracing on the floor to see how if and how the current pipe interferes.

[Actually, maybe definitely use paper board, mark and punch the closet bolt holes, and just cut away the part of the tracing for which the existing toilet interferes above the level of the closet bolt caps. Then you can pop off the existing closet bolt caps and drop the template over the closet bolts to register it.]

To move that pipe, that minimum size hole a plumber would need would be big enough fit a fist holding a mini pipe cutter. I'm thinking 5" in diameter, maybe, but 6" or 7" would be easier. If you have any spare tile or can get one matching tile, best thing would be to remove the tile with the current hole, open up the subfloor, drill the new hole in the adjoining tile and do the plumbing, and then repair the subfloor and lay the new tile. If there' s any chance of matching the texture on the ceiling below, opening up from below is likely to be easier/quicker/cheaper.

Cheers, Wayne

Thanks Wayne

Especially appreciate the info on the minimum size hole a plumber would need. I looked and I do have a few spare pieces of tile so if needed, I could have the one tile (and the subfloor under it) where the existing water supply is removed completely, have the plumbing done and then repair the subfloor and lay the new tile. I will keep that option in mind if I can't get enough from the offset

My problem with the cutting the ceiling is I don't have anyone to do that, especially matching the texture. Whereas worst case, if the plumber can't repair the subfloor and lay the tile, I always could do that. I would have to think about timing and whether I could still have him do everything in one visit or if he is ok doing two visits. I do plan to have him install two toilets so he could start this problematic one first, and if trying to offset the toilet to the right doesn't create enough room, then remove the one tile and subfloor, move the plumbing and then go work on installing the other toilet while I hopefully can quickly fix the subfloor and lay a new tile. While the tile wouldn't be dry it shouldn't really interfere with him then installing the toilet in this room.

This gives me a better sense of what to plan for - and I can even precut the tile to the size needed
Thanks

 

[Berry]

Use 1/4 inch closet bolts, rather than 5/16, to maximize your ability to slide right.

thanks - good to know, I will do that