Help with new shallow well pump

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by UWBadger91, May 23, 2020 at 6:39 PM.

  1. UWBadger91

    UWBadger91 New Member

    Joined:
    Saturday
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Hi all! I have an old cottage with a shallow well. The point is 23’ deep, then has a 1.5-2” PVC insert that’s 22’ long, which is what the pump connects to. When I drop a line in the point I can go down about 9 feet before I hit water.

    This spring when I went to hook up my pump I found it out bit the dust. I went to Menards and bought a 3/4 hp Little Giant and a 20 gallon pressure tank. Upon hooking everything up I have water but a lot of air, so I went through all my fittings with pipe compound and resealed everything....still have air. Then when I went to fill up my hot water heater the pump would drop to 10 PSI for awhile, then start hovering in the 30-50 range. Overall the pump runs a lot and I’m kind of at a loss as to what I should do next. Any advice?

    Pump:
    https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...ow-well-jet-pump/lg-swj75/p-1497334885176.htm

    Water tank:
    https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...ressurized-well-tank/ht20/p-1533623338237.htm

    Pump setup https://photos.app.goo.gl/V9VcRkSQBYjeYZeM8
    Tank Setup https://photos.app.goo.gl/SmMDAzPr4HA9wZ9T8
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020 at 6:50 PM
  2. WorthFlorida

    WorthFlorida The wife is still training me.

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    What do you mean "air"? Are you pulling air from the well? If so then you would usually lose prime and the pump is self priming. The pump pressure drops because the well level is dropping below the pipe inlet (starts to get air) and then builds up as the water level rises again above the pipe inlet and the pump primes itself because there is water in the pump. How long has it been since you drawn water from the well? What was the size (HP) of the old pump and it's pipe size inlet? It's hard to say why it runs a lot. Is it when you draw water or waiting for it to fully pressurize after water use and the pump turns on?
     
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  4. UWBadger91

    UWBadger91 New Member

    Joined:
    Saturday
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    When I have my faucets on I’ll get large bursts of air often. I thought a connection was leaking so I took everything apart and put it back together.

    The pump will be pumping just fine at 30-40 PSI, then suddenly drop to 10 for a minute and then go back up, mainly when under high demand from filling hot water tank or flushing toilet....it kicks on every time I flush the toilet. Overall runs a long time to even fill up the 20 gallon pressure tank, which I think really only has 5-6 gallons of water in it.

    This is a three season cottage so the last time we used the well was last September.

    Old pump was 3/4 HP as well. We had some air in line issues but not this bad. The inlet was 1 inch.

    If my math is correct the 1.5” PVC pipe has about 1.196 gallons in it when stagnant, when primed and the full 22 feet is full that’s about 2 gallons. Is it possible that my well isn’t recovering fast enough? Could I ditch the 1.5” pipe and go with the 3” that was driven?
     
  5. WorthFlorida

    WorthFlorida The wife is still training me.

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    You can go with a 2” pipe, if it fits inside the casing but if the well cannot supply the demand, a 2” may make the situation worse. If you have a well point at the end of the PVC pipe, it could be clogged up. Can it be pulled out? Might want to dump a gallon of chlorine down the well before you leave the camp for the weekend. Let it sit for a until you return. It might clean the point screenings.

    The location of the pressure gauge, is that on the correct location for this pump housing? As the pipe leaves this pump house, is there a spigot there so you can run the pump to be able to purge the well and not let it into the pressure tank or home? It’d be handy to have a spigot at the top of the tee on the pump pressure side to both flush and to manually prime the pump. As it starts to prime the air will blow out there instead of into the pressure tank.
     
  6. UWBadger91

    UWBadger91 New Member

    Joined:
    Saturday
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    The PVC point is actually just a 22’ piece of PVC with no end on it. This is inside a 3” 23’ long galvanized casing which is the actual point.

    Pressure gauge location is correct per the instructions. I thought it was an odd spot too. Spigot is right outside the ‘pump house’ and we use it to get rid of air normally but I keep getting more and more.

    An example of a current issue is that I flushed the one toilet in the cottage this morning and the pump ran for a solid 8 minutes.
     
  7. WorthFlorida

    WorthFlorida The wife is still training me.

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    Perhaps shorten the 22’ long pipe a few feet. The bottom of the casting could have filled up with sediment closing off the pipe inlet, though you’re not pulling sediment.
     
  8. UWBadger91

    UWBadger91 New Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Wisconsin
    That’s a good idea. So if I have 9’ until I hit water, then 13-14’ of water how much do you think I should cut off the 22’ PVC? Is 13-14’ of water a typical amount on a setup like this?
     
  9. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Your well has no 'point' or other screens to allow water to enter the casing. Here is an image of a well 'Sand Point' showing a large expanse of screen for water to enter the pipe.

    https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.walmart.ca%2Fen%2Fip%2FWater-Source-WPF-3680-2-x-36-in-Stainless-Steel-Well-Point%2FPRD2AY7JU913FL8&psig=AOvVaw0HntkHoEKOE23FSLwaivr-&ust=1590414326797000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCMDTj5vRzOkCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAF

    Without side screens, all water entering your shallow well is rising up from the bottom through the end of the 3" galvanized pipe. I anticipate the pump is removing water faster than it is entering which is as mentioned earlier, is causing the pump to pump air until enough water flows in again for the process to be repeated.
     
  10. UWBadger91

    UWBadger91 New Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Wisconsin
    This is the way it’s been setup for 20 years I’d say. I don’t know that it’s right but it worked fine prior to this year.

    We have the 3” 23’ well point which was driven into the ground, which has the screen on the end. Then another 1.5” 22’ PVC pipe inside, which is what the water is sucked from and this doesn’t have a screen. Are you recommending I add a screen to the PVC as well? Thanks!!
     
  11. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Sounds like you should consider some Nu-well 100 tablets followed by a few gallons of water to clean the screen. Some sloshing somehow will help.

    https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/sand-point-well-pump-run-5-minutes-before-hitting-40psi.81513/

    https://www.aqseptence.com/app/en/products/johnson-screens-nuwell-100/
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020 at 8:26 AM
  12. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    We only see what you tell us. Although you referred to the 3" galvanized pipe as a 'point', it seemed it was actually a length of 3" galvanized pipe which incorporated no side screening, thereby relying on water to enter only through the end opening. Many posters will use various terms even when those terms are not necessarily correct so it is good to obtain clarification.

    While using an acid such as Nu-Well tablets to open up any plugged holes in the casing screen may help, your previous pump utilized a 1" inlet, but you said your new pump is equipped with 1.5" or 2" piping down inside the casing. Your new pump is likely drawing water at a significantly higher rate compared to the old pump. Although the old pump and the well may have performed satisfactorily for 20 years, if the new pumping rate exceeds the well's recovery rate, then ...

    You might as an initial trial, restrict the pump output by installing a simple ball or gate valve directly after the pump before the pressure tank tee. If the pump rate remains consistent with the restrictor valve partially closed, you may then decide to replace the valve with a dole valve to restrict the output to a specific maximum flow rate.
     
  13. UWBadger91

    UWBadger91 New Member

    Joined:
    Saturday
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    The 3” casing I’m referring to as the ‘point’ was driven into the ground and it’s 23’ long with a traditional screened point on the end. Inside that casing is a 1.5” PCV pipe which is 22’ long, this is what our pump is connected to and this does not have a screen, it’s just inside the actual point.
     
  14. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Yes, I understand.

    The 1.5" PVC pipe supplying the pump will support significantly higher flow compared to the previous 1" pump feed.

    You said the problem exists when there is high water demand such as when filling the WH and pressure tank. My recommendation is to limit the pump flow rate to less than the well casing's fill rate, which will likely be similar to the flow rate provided by the old pump.
     
  15. UWBadger91

    UWBadger91 New Member

    Joined:
    Saturday
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Oh my apologizes for misunderstanding your question. The PVC in the ‘point’ was always 1.5”. The only thing that changed from 1” to 1.5” is the inlet on the pump prior to the union.
     
  16. UWBadger91

    UWBadger91 New Member

    Joined:
    Saturday
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Any chance my check valve could be bad? I let my pump build up to pressure and shut off. After letting it sit for a minute I turn on water and there’s immediately air even though I have A 20 gal pressure tank (6ish gals of water stored)?
     
  17. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Check the water level while pumping. If you still hit water at 10'-15' you are not pumping air and most likely have a suction leak.
     
  18. UWBadger91

    UWBadger91 New Member

    Joined:
    Saturday
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I picked up Renuwell (similar to NuWell) and our it in my well yesterday morning. Is there any need to flush it within 24-48 hours of can I leave it a few more days until I go back up?
     
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