Help - Galvanized drain pipes/vent pipe in 2 story home is rusted, broken, leaking.

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by mnalep, Jun 22, 2008.

  1. mnalep

    mnalep Member

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    Also, is there any possibilty that the galvanized drain going into the cast iron was just threaded in (not oakum and lead)?
     

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  2. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

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    You could try to stabilize that cast through the roof and cut it, but The end result is that doing that work will disturb the roof cement on the pipe and the flashing so it is just a useless time consuming exercise in futility.

    You could possibly avoid dealling with the cast iron connection if you are able to cut the pipe above that without it breaking... Slim chance!

    If you pull that off you could go back later and do the cast iron connection like I detailed and add the cleanout onto the end of the pipe.

    Seriously going about this piecemeal is a waste of time. I say its a few hours to demo it all down and probably even faster to build it all back up. All the playing around you want to do is going to take days and days with a ton of aggravation.
     
  3. mnalep

    mnalep Member

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    I hear you. I don't mind doing the work, I just hate surprises, and the roof vent pipe and basment floor drain both look like surprises to me.

    I was looking over the plan you gave me, and figure I'd have to cut the wall in 4 places (behind 1st floor sink, and then about 12"-14" to the left of that, then above the 2nd floor sink,and about 12"-14" to the left of that).

    Then I'd have to cut holes in the studs between both sections, and another hole between the 2 floors. Sound right? Do you use a round door hole saw, on a drill, for that - or something else?
     
  4. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

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    If you have a big enough hole saw that would be fine.

    I've been using these self feeding bits lately and I will say they make a pile of chip in a hurry.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. mnalep

    mnalep Member

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    Is there any reason why the 2nd vent pipe needs to be 12" or so away from the main vent/drain? I was just wondering, if I have room to run the 2nd vent up along next to the current pipes (almost side by side), is there a reason why I shouldn't. (I was thinkinh if I can run it up between the same 2 wall studs, that would mean less wall that needs to be cut open (and repatched eventually).
     
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Assuming you want to join the two vents eventually, you need some room between them to add the fittings, or, if you you will penetrate the roof with two, you need enough room between for the roof jack or flashing.
     
  7. mnalep

    mnalep Member

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    True, I was thinking of using 90 degree elbows/stubs to get the top of the new 2nd vent about 4" or so away from the first, to give room to tie into it the 1st vent. (Might look hokey, but I guess it would function the same?)
     
  8. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

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    You could but you have to be 6" above the flood rim of the 1st floor sink before you go 90 degrees. I'd run it separate just to keep it easier/simpler.
     
  9. mnalep

    mnalep Member

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    HELP ..... I put in the PVC in the basment, I cut the galvanized about 7' up, and tied the new PVC to the galvanized above it (for now, until I can put all new PVC in).

    My problem is that the PVC going into the basement floor drain is leaking. I cleaned out the lead from the cast iron drain in the floor (using a drill, and a grinder). I got a 2" rubber donut, put the PVC into it, and pushed that into the cast iron drain. But it leaks out. :-(

    It was gurgling out, until I pushed the rubber fernco donut down with a screwdriver. Now it's just oozing water. I'd like some advice as to how to seal it well. The guy at Home Depot said put cement over the rubber donut. This doesn't sound right to me?

    Someone at the hardware store suggest oakum, and then top that with SOIL SEAL (which they said replaces PLASTIC LEAD)?

    I wonder if it's not sealing, did I take out too much of the circumference of the cast iron pipe when I was taking the lead out?

    I did push the PVC about 1/4" to the side, where it meets the galvanized, in order to get it to line up. But I doubt this small amount of tension would cause the leak at the fernco rubber donut?

    Help would be appreciated.


    Below are some pictures of where I am:
     

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    Last edited: Jul 2, 2008
  10. mnalep

    mnalep Member

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    And a few more pictures....
     

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  11. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

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    The donut you have fits too loose...
    There are several sizes of cast iron used and the inside dia. of the hub will vary with the weight of the cast iron.
    In any case it should not be leaking.
    I suspect the line is clogged and needs to be snaked clear.
    Pull the pipe and donut out run a gaden hose into the drain and see if it fills up and overflows.

    Make sure that you put a cleanout in that line a little over a foot above the floor.
    P.S. Nice job cleaning that lead and oakum out!
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2008
  12. mnalep

    mnalep Member

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    Now that you mention that, I remember the cleanout plug on the new tee dripping some water also, then I tightened it up and it almost all stopped. (I did not have the teflone tape with me, so that was missing also). But I did wonder why that part had a leak too. I only had the sink running about half pressure at the time, and did wonder if the new 2" pipe was overwhelming the drain pipes, and that was why some was backing up and out the cleanout plug.?

    So you think I did not remove too much of the inside of the cast iron?

    The inside diameter of my cast iron, looked to me to be about 3.25" to 3.50". I measured the donut before putting it in, and it was right about 3.25".

    Do you think just snaking it will fix it, or do I need to find a larger donut also?
    Are you talking about renting a industrial strenght snake that runs off a drill motor, or just the manual, by hand, type? I don't recall it backing up before I put the new pipe in?

    (I did leave a 1.5" pipe in the cast iron while drilling most of the lead out. Some did get in the bottom of the drain, but I think I vacumed all of that out).
     

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  13. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

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    No, you did a great job cleaning that hub out! I went back to my post and added a P.S. about that.

    For this drain I would say that I recomend a pro but I do know your funding situation..,
    I would use a machine that has a 1/2" cable on it!
    Be careful those rental machines are usually loaded with a cable that is full of kinks. They will twist up on your fingers quicker than you can blink an eye.
    They can Break fingers! Keep the line filled with the hose and keep running the snake forward until the line clears. See if you can figure how far it goes before it ties into a larger line and go that far plus a little more. Run water down the pipe while retrieving the snake.

    I do recommend that you find the right size donut.
     
  14. mnalep

    mnalep Member

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    Thanks for the compliment on the hub. It's nice to hear. (I was afraid maybe I screwed the cast iron drain up).

    So if my drain is say 3.25" in diameter, should my donut be just that size (3.25"), or just over - like 3 3/8"?

    Do you think the drain pipe is just gummed up from years of usage? Or rusting?

    I take it you don't like the idea of oakum/SOIL SEAL, cement, or anything like that?

    ALso I left the PVC about 3/8" from the bottom of the fernco donut, as the instructions stated. Is that cool?
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2008
  15. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

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    The donut needs to fit tight to make the seal I'd see what sizes you can find and hopefully get a snug fit. 3 3/8 might do it,

    Hopefully its just gunked up!

    Read how to order at this link!
    http://www.fernco.com/Donut.asp
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2008
  16. mnalep

    mnalep Member

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    Did you see the last 2 questions (I edited those in)?

    I take it you don't like the idea of oakum/SOIL SEAL, cement, or anything like that?

    Also I left the PVC about 3/8" from the bottom of the fernco donut, as the instructions stated. Is that cool?


    Also, Do I need to worry about breaking the cast iron by snaking?

    PS: last question for tonight, I'm hitting the hay. I'll check in the morning for your reply. Night.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2008
  17. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

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    Your too fast! See the link I put in above on donut sizing.

    The donut is your best option

    No I don't worry about pipes breaking when I snake. If they break they were shot anyway! If the cast iron is in good enough shape a 1/2" cable will git-r-done!
     
  18. Herk

    Herk Plumber

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    I always insert the donut into the hub. Then, I grind a bevel on the end of the pipe. With some pipe lubricant that won't damage the rubber, I would push the pipe into the donut. You can use a 2" x 4" stub to lay flat over the pipe and hit it gently with a heavy hammer to make it go in. It should not be too easy!

    Then you can put a cleanout tee on top of the stub you just put in.
     
  19. mnalep

    mnalep Member

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    Redwood, I'll need to find someplace that has incrementally larger donuts i guess. The Home Depot by me has one donut size for 2" pipe, and one for 3" pipe.

    I'll try and do the water test today, not sure I'll get the snake today though.

    Herk, it sounds like you get the new PVC to bottom out against the old cast iron drain the way you do it? Does that help ensure a better seal - if the PVC is all the way through the donut?

    Also, if the PVC is lubricated, it goes into the rubber without forcing the rubber donut any further into the cast iron (since it slips into the rubber)? So the rubber is fully seated before you tap in the PVC?

    Also, I did put a cleanout tee in the pipe, as Redwood suggested also.

    I also put in a picture to show the offset of the new PVC to galvanized. That is the distance I had to bend the PVC to align with the galvanized. I had bought a couple of 1/16 elbows, but they over compensated for the offset, from what I could see. But this problem should go away as I put new PVC up the wall (I just wanted to make sure the tension wasn't causing my leak in the donut).

    Anyway the main concern is stopping the leaking out of the donut in the cast iron.
     

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  20. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    If you go to the Fernco website, look at the table of available donuts, take an EXACT measurement of the inside diameter of the hub, you can determine the proper number of the donut required. The proper installation instructions are there as well. Basically, insert the donut in the hub, then insert the pvc. It must be tight, or it will leak if there is any backup in the pipe.
     
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