Global Warming, now Water Shortage

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Dunbar Plumbing, Oct 27, 2007.

  1. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    The Great Global Warming Swindle

    http://www.greatglobalwarmingswindle.co.uk/

    I watched this film last night, and it sure opened my eyes.
    It presented information about global warming that I haven't heard before.

    It seems that there are climate scientist that support two sides of it.

    For
    and Against

    Those that are for, are more likely to get government grants for research,
    Those that don't believe in the often stated cause, have a harder time getting research grants.

    It was suggested in the program, that the energy from the sun, was driving warming, or cooling.
    Is it really that simple?
    That counting sun spots, those vast forces of nature can and do affect our weather.
    After watching the movie, you realize that those suggesting warming caused by the sun, don't get the press.
    Those that say cars create the warming do.
    I like the graphs they had, showing warm periods during medieval times, when the climate was warmer, castles were being built with high ceilings, and vineyards were being cultivated in England.
    I don't know enough to really know, but it does make me think.
    http://www.greatglobalwarmingswindle.co.uk/

    http://en.sevenload.com/videos/ha4PoKY/The-Great-Global-Warming-Swindle
    Here is the entire movie
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2007
  2. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    Good movie Terry. I was glad you posted it. I hope everyone watches it.
     
  3. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    Sun

    Terry, yes, I think it is that simple. The sun is huge and we do live in, what some would say, we live in its atmosphere. It is almost an arrogant thought, to think, that we as humans, could change climate.

    The Earth, is doing nothing different than what it had done for many many years, all on its own, without our help.

    If we can change climate, then, someone better come up with a cure for NHL. ( just my own thought)
     
  4. BrooklynJon

    BrooklynJon New Member

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    Great Global Warming Swindle

    Terry,

    Yes, it's a very interesting program. It is somewhat biased, but it makes some important points, and highlights the other side of the argument that is usually suppressed for political reasons.
     
  5. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    I hope you did see the graphs.
     
  6. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

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    Good moovie but .....

    that was a very good movie....

    I agree with what you wrote about everyone trying to
    get a piece of the big money pie to fund their grants...

    and it all largely has to do with sun spots...


    but their was one thing that they blarely
    touched on but then left out of the movie....

    they had Al Gore in his movie looking at his
    chart of CO2 levels .over the eons the planet has existed.....

    and then they sort of debuked the whole premis.

    but never actually told or answered the
    problem that Gore was trying to expalin in his movie.

    they only showed him standing there in front of his charts...........

    they did not show or mention what he was really
    getting at with those charts and totally omitted it....

    they should have showed his whole chart graph and
    explained that to me too......

    In his movie .... for dramatics, it showed where Gore had to
    get into a cherry picker to raise himself up to the heights that C02 levels were presently at....

    far above the heights on his chart he could reach by just standing on the podium....

    and then how much higher they were going inthe next 20 years....

    I cant recall the exact number but I believe it was over
    50 to 100 times higher than has ever been in geological history.. and what was
    this gonna do to everythign on the planet...

    I suppose that they jsut discounted everythign that he mentioined
    claiming that the data simply has to be flawed????...



    this is the concern that Al Gore was talking about..
    and trying to get across in his movie.........

    I think we need more debate....

    BROOKLYNJON
    me and The Peoples Front of Judea
    will debate this and get back to you

    would you like to join us????

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2007
  7. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

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    Yes, "almost" ... because many people seem to believe we actually can!
     
  8. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    After watching the movie it makes all the sense in the world.

    It would be like saying that when baking a cake in an oven that the heat source had nothing to do with how it came out of the oven but that the salt used in the recipe was solely responsible for its outcome.
     
  9. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    Thanks, Terry, for making me use up an hour and a quarter of a beautiful Saturday morning watching the computer when I could have been out on the dock watching the hydroplane races and the balloon launch. Another typical day here...

    Excellent movie with an interesting premise and very credible arguments. I've regained some of the skepticism I should have had all along as I read other writings and watched other movies. Makes me even more sorry that I won't be around to see how this plays out.
     
  10. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    Watch it again Mark. It is explained about the CO2.
    Mikey, your hour was better spent watching the movie. :)
    Lee, it is really an arrogant thought. We will never be superior to Mother Nature.

    Off to shopping. On foot. :D Using no gas here or hot air. Just spending money of which I don't have enough of.
    * Come to think of it, since I am an avid recycler I could say, I am going to spend this Saturday morning recycling!
    I put those politicians to shame.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2007
  11. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

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    cookie ...no it did not explain

    cookie...it explained how the co2 levels follow
    the temps of the planet by a few hundred years....

    they did not really explain why the co2 levels are
    the highest ever recorded in the history of the planet

    which was the point that Al Gore was trying to
    to dramatize in his movie.....

    watch Als movie again and I will watch this one over...


    oh whatever, why debate this anyway....


    I must be a moron ..... a gullible fool...
    .
    [​IMG]

    that has got to be the case...





    just go out and do your shopping..

    and forget about it..........

    ...
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2007
  12. BrooklynJon

    BrooklynJon New Member

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    Mark,

    Your with the People's Front of Judea? Those kneebiters? I'm with the Judean People's Front!
     
  13. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

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    If acknowledging the possibility of contributing to global warming, or third world covert operations aimed at anyone who doesn't want to be a muslim means having to drive a vehicle that might take 5 more minutes to get me to the mall...to heck with that!
    MUST have the mall!
    Has America completely lost touch with the difference between necessity and convenience?

    I DID notice Al Gore had a hair out of place, a wrinkle in his shirt in his movie, he lost all credibility on that note, he can't possibly know what he's talking about in that case.

    Do a web search for " Larson B ", though I think it's fair to assume enough of us agree the Earth is warming...
    Would it be arrogant to conveniently assume that the single period of the largest insertion of CO into the Earths atmosphere in it's 4.5 billion year history has nothing to do with it?
    I cannot say I know either way, but I'd rather not be toasting marshmallows in 20 years without the campfire thinking we could have done something.
     
  14. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

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    Another point of mention...
    If the sun alone were the only contributor to heat retention, then why do we create greenhouses?
    Based on that theory, shouldn't a simple open structure hold heat just as effectively?
    If satellites are telling us the temperatures are the same, why are the ice caps melting?
    Why are Polar bears going to be extinct soon?
    Why are Greenland's glaciers melting?
    Why are Armadillo's starting to migrate north for the first time in known history?
    Why has the Amazon been experiencing increasingly worse droughts every year? The infamous "monsoon season" of Asia?
    Does anyone recall how effective the tobacco industry was at swaying "special interest" in big politics for years?
    Is it possible the petrolium industry could do the same?
    Again, I don't know, but I sure as hell can't just ignore the obvious.
    At least until it's time to hit the mall....
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2007
  15. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

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    ignore the obvious..you will sleep better

    In the long run its better to ignore the whole thing....

    its better that we just sweep it all under te rug....

    and try to ignore the obvious ...

    something like Deer stareing into headlights.....
     
  16. BrooklynJon

    BrooklynJon New Member

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    Greenhouses

    Greenhouses work by preventing Convection-based heat loss into the atmosphere. But the Earth cannot gain or lose heat by convection since it is in space, which has precious little mass. It can't gain or lose heat by conduction either, for the same reason. If the global temperature is changing, it is necessarily due to a change in the balance between heat absorbed from the sun and heat lost to space.

    There are certainly things that humans could potentially do to alter that balance (i.e. changing the infrared absorbance of the atmosphere), but mother nature is mighty powerful in shoving things back into balance (e.g. with cloud cover), assuming there isn't a wholesale change in the radiation output of the sun.

    Are there powerful forces that want us to ignore the spectre of global warming? Of course!

    Are there powerful forces that want us to gut our economy in the name of reducing our CO2 output? Of course!

    Should we be taking reasonable precautions that are also beneficial in other ways (e.g reducing smog, reducing our dependence on other countries)? Of course!

    Should we take precautions that will have other damaging effects (e.g. diverting the resources that regenerate our country's topsoil, building more dams that wreak havoc on natural areas, chopping down the rainforest in the name of making more biofuel)? I think not, particularly when the whole hypothesis (I refuse to call it a theory at this stage of the game) is so unproven.

    As for me, I will continue to burn my quart of gasoline a day commuting to work, gloriously illuminate my house with electric (flourescent) light, and strongly encourage everyone to let science - unencumbered by politics and monied interest - to sort it all out.
     
  17. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    That is indeed the bottom line. Does an increase in sunspot activity increase the incoming energy? Apparently. Does an increase in CO2 in the atmosphere decrease the heat lost to space? Theoretically. Are these two processes independent? Who knows? Ask why Mars and Venus are the temperatures they are -- no human activity there (well, not much) to corrupt the data.

    Right now I'm happy with sunspot activity explaining the bulk of historic temperature change, and increasing CO2 as cause for caution, if not alarm, going forward. Believing that global warming is an excuse for repression of 3rd-world growth is somewhat of a stretch for me. Wish there were more time to devote to resolving the issue to my satisfaction, but the truth is it won't matter to me in the end, unless the GW extremists are right...
     
  18. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    I shopped for 8 hours today Mark, lol.

    Grumpy, I was not at the malls, I hate malls. Infact, I hate shopping... but, I love sales, lol. so, I recycled alot, but, I bought my son a Xmas present too, lol.

    Now, what does this have to do with the topic here? NOTHING, ha ha ha. What is global warming??

    Also bought a book on Anzio. Any vets from there perhaps? ( working on a project here) A tribute to my dad.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2007
  19. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

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    My point exactly.

    A greenhouse vs an open structure.
    The "structure" in this case is greenhouse gas.
    I'd seen someone make an assertion that reducing our dependancy on foreign oil could cause even worse environmental strife.
    That one lost me.

    Driving a hybrid vehicle doesn't seem like third world to me...for that matter I've been cut off in traffic lately by a few
    Shifting away from Oil/coal to nuclear, hydro, solar & wind power doesn't either.
    Venus is alot closer to the sun, almost 30% closer, it's predominently co2 atmosphere doesn't help cool it's 900+f temps either.
    Mars is thought to have lost most of it's atmosphere gradually as it's magnetic field died off...solar winds (cosmic energy, as Cookie says - the suns "atmosphere") slowly ripped it away.
    When a mere several thousand miles in change of distance of the Earths axis can completely change seasons, I don't get the warm n' fuzzies about trying to gauge anything about our planet based on those two.
    I don't care if you vote for Gore, Bush or Alfred E Newman...I have utterly no clue why politics should have any part in the facts, aside from potential "special interest".
     
  20. Dunbar Plumbing

    Dunbar Plumbing Master Plumber

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    Need cliff notes now

    What kills me is that I believe this has been a marketing campaign of sorts to develop new products that generate tons of revenue by public influence.

    For example, when the Prius, the vehicle with the hugest battery known to a automobile, do you know what that introduces to the enviorment when that vehicle encounters a wreck, a defective battery, a short life, any of the above??? It's bad enough that regular batteries (AAA,AA,D,C and any other I missed) are designed now to not last as long. :mad::mad::mad:

    But now you've introduced a vehicle that poses hazards on a totally different level. A rear end collision with a major electrical hazard, chemical spill no matter which way you spin the logic. It's going to require a whole different set of circumstances and the possibility for death is given through the hazardous chemical equation.

    The vehicle is a lunch box; you put your hand out the window the vehicle will actually turn direction. LOL!!! And what kills me are those who before didn't own this vehicle, drove the same vehicles we ALL did and now they think it's special that their carbon footprint is a little smaller. Let's ignore the fact that the 100 pound battery that erodes away into the earth, contaminating the soil and changing the physical chemistry of the earth's PURE water source. It's a 2 edged sword and no website link, no personal opinion and NO personal belief strays from that actual fact, jack.

    Eeeeeeeeeeveryone went to these flourescent light fixtures. They suck!! They are expensive, don't last as long, when it's cold they start off not as bright, when they break it is a poison control situation due to it's level of contaminates providing mercury exposure as a complimentary gift since you want to save the world, one kilowatt at a time. Why don't your dumb *** walk around with a flashlight in your house if you want to save the world? Better yet, why don't you remove the electrical system from your home and work off of solar panels? I guess that eludes to more battery packs to harvest that "natural" power that has to be conserved until you use it.

    There's a lot of you that are sheep following the flock on many counts because "Global warming affects me, so therefore I must react." But all the time before you still threw garbage away, you went to restaurants and ate food that produced paper waste, you still read a newspaper delivered to your driveway that HAS to be the end result of tree removal when you could of read the info on the net, you buy new products everyday that creates cardboard waste, you have multiple lines of credit, mortgages, subscriptions to all those eco-friendly magazines indirectly that pump your head full of the most glorious fruit of ideas.....and involved a diesel motor or chainsaw, electrical power so you can read it from your armchair in your home, thanks to the mailman in their not-so-friendly gas consuming vehicle.

    But you're the problem opposite thinking. The trees that were destroyed so you can sit in your leather chair, the carpet you so enjoy, the computer you sit at that you so gloriously fire comments that "I'm the one making a difference" one huge *** car battery at a time.

    Justification standards is what I'm talking about. Do as I say and not as I do. If your going to spout it, do the full circle and don't make it sound like your special. Instead of flying to see family, get on the internet, IM, email, set up video camera capability. That's how the jet engines don't turn and burn massive fuel. IF your family moved all across the earth because of career motivation, YOUR CARBON footprint is HUGE. You are the problem. Justifying flying because "I got frequent flyer miles and I can travel for $89" is bad thinking. Feeling you deserve to visit what you saw on a postcard because you can, you're part of the problem. You justify burning tons of fuel because of my personal situation, that I have friends and family all over the world. I'm going to Greece, nevermind that black smoke roaring from the 4 jet engines trailing behind us, that's just okay.

    "Oh but I'll drive, save like $$$ amount of dollars and save the world" Well good for you. It wouldn't be such an irony if people had that attitude from the go, therefore we are ALL guilty of the same implied thinking, and no one is special for doing otherwise.


    At least try to be part of the equation of sensible thinking before you read it in a magazine or heard it on the news, followed the mindset of the others you so share the same follow the flock thinking.

    If you're going to counter my thinking, do it without website url's, do it without "recent personal choice" changes in your life that brought you to change your thinking and for the life of sam, do not justify your huge *** car battery that you've read somewhere that it isn't that bad. It is and you won't spin the seriousness of what it does to the enviorment. It's a bad end product that doesn't leave the good GREEN mother earth. Do as I say, not how I do. Al Gore can attest to that thinking when everyone found out how many thousands of dollars is spent in his personal home. Such an irony of someone who spouted to the world. But just ignore me and my personal actions, this all applies to YOU.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2007
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