Pro press vs solder, from a homeowners perspective

[Lanmior]

Hi I'm fairly handy diy-er and have done a good amount of plumbing. My go too method is now propress when I can do it. So much so that I invested in a press, figuring it pays for itself after a couple jobs where I'd otherwise have to hire a plumber.

Now, at least in my area and from what I've seen, very few plumbers have a propress, and those that do rarely pull it out (it almost seems as more of a specialty tool for them). My conspiracy theory is that plumbers are not inclined to use pro press primarily because the cost of job is likely to be about the same to the customer, but the ratio of labor/parts is better for soldering joints than for pro press, which is quicker but couplers cost more. So effectively thats money into the pocket of the plumber with effectively no discernible difference to the homeowner.

Is this really the case? Or are there other practical reasons why one might prefer sweating all joints. The only things I can think of are:

• upfront investment in pro press (though this would seem to amortize pretty quickly)
• ability to desolder a joint (but how often do you really need to do this)
• you'll need to sweat some joints anyway (but I'm not saying not to sweat, just why not use pro press as the default)
• maybe I'm underestimating the reduced labor when pro pressing. I'm certainly not efficient when sweating, perhaps the pro press time advantage goes away for a seasoned plumber.
• other?

Curious for pros thoughts...

 

[Taylorjm]

For me they definitely have their place. I used one for a hydronic heating change that was right next to a huge bundle of electric so sweating would have been near impossible. The cost of the tool plus the cost of the fittings would make a large job prohibitively expensive. The fittings being 5x as much as copper sweat is crazy. Especially when pex is an option.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

I thought about buying one on occasion... but I would rather just solder as the fittings
are much cheaper....

the propress is good in an emergency situations in larger sized joints like 1 1/4 and 2 inch pipe
in commercial applications where you cannot get the water totally shut off

Lots of folks use sharkbite fittings and stops
because they basically do the same thing, and I have used many
of them without any troubles....

 

[Fitter30]

Propress came out in 1999. Commercial company i worked for put in a hydronic job back then and turned out with only a couple of small leaks from not pressing them enough. Fittings didn't have a plastic ring to make sure they were crimped enough. Now pressing is a standard for water, gas,air, black pipe, stainless and refrigeration to 4" copper. Fittings are expensive but labor is to. Retired 2012 on a service truck soldiered 90%. Now 95+ % pressed construction and service plumbers and pipefitters.

 

[John Gayewski]

Depends on the job. Every method has its place. Propress is no good for big pipe. The fittings can be $250 vs $85 for the sweat version. People pay more for labor than parts for most small jobs so pro press is better as the pipe and fitting need very little prep and you can fly through joining the pipes.

 

[JohnCT]

My conspiracy theory is that plumbers are not inclined to use pro press primarily because the cost of job is likely to be about the same to the customer, but the ratio of labor/parts is better for soldering joints than for pro press, which is quicker but couplers cost more. So effectively thats money into the pocket of the plumber with effectively no discernible difference to the homeowner.

While there's no doubt there's a savings with using sweat fittings and plumbing is a business with a bottom line, I think it's just as easy to sweat for small repairs than it is to use a Propress, and often it's easier in tight areas. Also, if you screw up and have to undo a coupling for any reason, it's easy to do with sweat fitting whereas the pressed fitting means pipe cutting.

For a big job it's probably cheaper to use Propress considering the labor hours saved.

John

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

While there's no doubt there's a savings with using sweat fittings and plumbing is a business with a bottom line, I think it's just as easy to sweat for small repairs than it is to use a Propress, and often it's easier in tight areas. Also, if you screw up and have to undo a coupling for any reason, it's easy to do with sweat fitting whereas the pressed fitting means pipe cutting.

For a big job it's probably cheaper to use Propress considering the labor hours saved.

John

For emergencies the propress is a good option
I had a plumber buddy get himself into a big jam at a restaurant fighting with a 1 1/2 copper line..
the gate valve would not shut off and the whole place was shut down and they were all going apeshit
because he could not solder a ball valve onto the line to isolate the problem and get the place up and running again...

They called some other place out there in desperation and thig guy just took his propress tool and a 1 1/2 ball valve
and had the situation under control for them in under 5 minutes... This was years before you could just rent that
tool at a local supply house for a few hours like you can today..

It has its applications...but I still dont want to get one

 

[Lui]

While there's no doubt there's a savings with using sweat fittings and plumbing is a business with a bottom line, I think it's just as easy to sweat for small repairs than it is to use a Propress, and often it's easier in tight areas. Also, if you screw up and have to undo a coupling for any reason, it's easy to do with sweat fitting whereas the pressed fitting means pipe cutting.

For a big job it's probably cheaper to use Propress considering the labor hours saved.

In my opinion it is much faster to cut and propress again than it is to unsweat a fitting, clean it, prep to solder and start over.

 

[Lui]

Professionals:
If the price of press fittings is the determining factor when joining pipes then you are doing something terribly wrong in the way you run your company. When that 3hr job turns into a 1.5hr job you’ll see the value in those fittings. (Especially if you have the Ridgid press rings)

Homeowner:
If you already bought the tool or know how to use it and can rent one it’s a no brainer!

(Pro tip: that 3hr job can turn into a 45min job with pex and a powered crimper, Ryobi has the only powered cinch ring crimper in existence and it’s awesome!)

 

[Breplum]

Best tools I've ever bought. Lack of flux residue started out as a major plus from schools, multi-tenant, commercial to just plain homeowners, all the pros are using routinely in our area.

 

[JohnCT]

"In my opinion it is much faster to cut and propress again than it is to unsweat a fitting, clean it, prep to solder and start over."

I guess that depends on how good you are at sweating. A redo with propress also means cutting, remeasuring, and replacing a section or more of pipe - plus copper has gotten really expensive recently.

John

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

"In my opinion it is much faster to cut and propress again than it is to unsweat a fitting, clean it, prep to solder and start over."

I guess that depends on how good you are at sweating. A redo with propress also means cutting, remeasuring, and replacing a section or more of pipe - plus copper has gotten really expensive recently.

John

Propress fittings are not exactly cheap by any sense of the word.....

some say that the propress is taking the skill out of doing plumbing
and most apprentices do not even know how to solder a joint any more...

 

[John Gayewski]

and most apprentices do not even know how to solder a joint any more...

No. All the apprentices know how to solder they teach it in school and we still do it in the field.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

No. All the apprentices know how to solder they teach it in school and we still do it in the field.

That is debatable, and it seems to be becoming a lost art....

 

[Lui]

Pulled out my pro-press yesterday but decided to solder the first fitting, well, after yrs of not soldering the excitement took over and I could not put the torch down! Needless to say I completed the entire project without a single press fitting. (Air lines for a granite shop) Like riding a bike!

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

Pulled out my pro-press yesterday but decided to solder the first fitting, well, after yrs of not soldering the excitement took over and I could not put the torch down! Needless to say I completed the entire project without a single press fitting. (Air lines for a granite shop) Like riding a bike!

well, good for you.... you win a cookie...

 

[JohnCT]

Pulled out my pro-press yesterday but decided to solder the first fitting, well, after yrs of not soldering the excitement took over and I could not put the torch down! Needless to say I completed the entire project without a single press fitting. (Air lines for a granite shop) Like riding a bike!

I agree it's like riding a bike, but some people were never very good at riding bikes or sweating pipes. For the latter, the propress is a great tool.

I'm not against tools - for PEX I bought a powered expansion tool and heads, but those are necessary to make (what I consider) the best PEX connections, whereas I feel a propress connection is a downgrade from a durability standpoint.

And I LOVE a good cookie!

John

 

[Reach4]

Pulled out my pro-press yesterday but decided to solder the first fitting, well, after yrs of not soldering the excitement took over and I could not put the torch down! Needless to say I completed the entire project without a single press fitting. (Air lines for a granite shop) Like riding a bike!

That bike has changed a lot. In the old days, you used acid flux and lead+tin solder.

I think that with tinning flux and silver-bearing solder, it is easier than it used to be.

I am not sure how non-silver lead-free solder with non-tinning flux would be in comparison with the old days.

Congratulations on your success.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

That bike has changed a lot. In the old days, you used acid flux and lead+tin solder.

I think that with tinning flux and silver-bearing solder, it is easier than it used to be.

I am not sure how non-silver lead-free solder with non-tinning flux would be in comparison with the old days.

Congratulations on your success.

I use the oaty #5 tinning flux and it seems to be the best solution for tinning
the copper and getting a good joint made...

It is not hard and of course its cheaper and will certainly last much longer than
a pro press fitting

Also...The water soluable flux sucks

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

Pro press fitting not press. Hold for a 4 months. 19 floor of 24 story building. Leek all the way to lobby.
— in Sunny Isles Beach, FL.