Fixing..broken brass flange. Not bolted to sub floor.

[Dsan392]

Hello my name is David, I'm addicted to trying to repair stuff myself even when i shouldn't. I find that trying to do the hard stuff helps me at least learn the small stuff on the way. I also end up with more tools and misc. hardware for my collection in the end. This attempt so far has yielded me 2 extra wax rings, some extra cutoff wheels, a Benzomatic torch set, tiny ball peen hammer, 3 small packs of tapcon screws and a small set of Bosch concrete drill bits and a tub of Quikcreete patch cement.


Okay so what I have is a 9 or 12 lead stub that looks to connect to a black ABS bend. The lead pipe looks to connect to inside of the of the bend. I am also not sure it's actually abs but it's non metallic and black. The last flange wasn't screwed to the floor. It kind of floated above the the subfloor and was soldered to the lead pipe. The concreted sub floor looks like it was chipped away with a pick ax or or something to allow the concave portion of the flange (is that called a horn?). But the guy with the pick axe must have been new because there is not really much flat concrete to bolt the flange to.

I managed to use the Quickcrete patch (like moldable gel type) to build up floor. Got everything out back together after some issues with the bolt not going in that last 1/8 despite plenty long pilot hole. The flange was also a little tight fitting in the cutout in the tile floor. flange ended up flush. So I bent the lead over the flange. Put the bowl back on using the weird self adjusting bolts from fluid master. There was a wobble so it tightened down a bit. Then though why don't I loosen the low side a bit then shim. (Was that a bad move all together, does that break the wax seal?) Anyways I heard the ping of the brass break at that point. So I removed everything and the bolt holes in at this point are worn and oversized. The concreted patch may have held up if it wasn't drilled and bolts tightened and removed as many times as I did. I think I was almost there. The initial toilet rocking that broke the last working installed flange felt the same when I put the bowl back on after this failed attempt. I think the bowl might be sitting on one of there areas where there blobs of grout that stick out.

So I'm a basically back to square one but with a plan that didn't work the first time. I see a few things that I can change to improve it slightly but really, I think I need some advice and maybe a new plan.

Happy fourth of July!
Thank you
David

 

[Terry]

Some pictures would help us here. Sometimes, because on of my tools is a rotohammer, I will use a lead mushroom and a 1/4" hammer bit with a concrete floor. I can buy those anchors in different lengths depending on how deep I will need to go for securing.
Hopefully when a bowl is set over the flange, it's low enough so that it doesn't high center on it. If the floor or base of the bowl is off a bit, then I may shim at the back of the bowl. I check for shimming beforehand and drop the wax down and set the final install when I know it's ready to go.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Since you describe a lot of stuff that would be hidden by a slab, I suspect you have a crawlspace or basement.

If the closet flange is not held down securely, try putting longer screws through the subfloor and into a 2x4 piece. Alternatively, you can use long machine screws, with washer and nut below.

If the closet flange is not a problem, to keep a toilet from rocking, put in shims. Position the shims without wax, lift the toilet, drop the wax, drop the toilet.

A photo or two would explain the situation more clearly.

Is your closet flange over a crawlspace?

 

[Breplum]

I would go for actual redo down into the slab back to good pipe or fitting.
Sawcut slab, excavate, determine attachment and new DWV plastic back up to a stainless steel closet flange.
In a slab we use four long brass closet bolts placed upside down through the flange holes, bolt with brass or ss nuts, then bend the distal ends into an "L" then pour concrete into the void with Tapcons drilled in previously to the sides of the slab cut as reinforcement anchors.

 

[Terry]

I would go for actual redo down into the slab back to good pipe or fitting.

It did sound kind of messy. Anytime you can remove a lead bend you're better off. I was told that thirty years ago and it's only getting worse with time. I'm in an area where working on really old homes isn't done as much. Often if a home is 70 years it just gets torn down after the sale.

 

[Dsan392]

Here are some pics. Of the slab and pipe. I used and oatley flange from home Depot (made in China) because I decided not to go with the the extended flange. The extended flange I purchased from a plumbing supply shop actually seems like it thicker and actually fit the cutout better and was not as tight in the finished floor opening. I placed the extended flange on the pipe just for the last pics.