Cracked 3” pipe removing toilet flange

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by fallvitals, Mar 5, 2020.

  1. fallvitals

    fallvitals New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2020
    Location:
    WV
    Hello. I’m a DIY guy, but plumbing is something I haven’t really messed with too much.

    Was attempting to remove an old glued on (the outside of the pipe) toilet flange from a 3” ID pipe. Ended up cracking.

    I do have access from the basement luckily. Looks like I can easily cut off the elbows at the straight portion of pipe and redo it, my question is how do I “raise” the height of the pipe without doing it jackleggy? lol.

    It actually wouldn’t hurt to be a smidge higher because in retiling and overall the floor till end up about 1/2” taller than before.

    Thanks.
     

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  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    IL
    What are your concerns? If the top elbow is too high for a pipe to connect to an outside closet flange, you can get a "spigot" flange that goes right in the fitting. You can find a long tail version to give you some more depth.
     

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  4. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    You should not have a santee on it's back for the toilet. The poop goes both directions.
    It should be a combo or a wye. At least you have plenty of room there to cut out what you have and replace it.
     
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  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
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    New England
    FWIW, STOP trying to pull pvc joints apart! The cement literally melts the plastic and when the solvent evaporates, they are technically welded together.

    While some people are able to peel a joint apart, it doesn't always work, and is risky for most people to try.
     
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  6. fallvitals

    fallvitals New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2020
    Location:
    WV
    Reach4, thanks. I didn’t realize some flanges came with a long length to reach the pipes. In my photo, the top of the pipe will be roughly 1” as it sits currently to the top of the tile, maybe a little more once thinset is applied. And once the pipe is cut and redone; I’d say a lose if another 2”? So, the pipe would sit around 3” below the tile. Still sounds good to go with the correct flange?

    That was really my question, is it okay, or how to properly get the pipe closer to the tile.


    Terry, I see what you’re saying, again, I’m not a plumber and not imaginative enough to see how I could add a combo or why without adding some kind of crazy elbows to get it back up into the subfloor?

    jadnashua, again, plumbing isn’t my thing, I did some reading and video watching before attempting. What method is preferred for this? So I know in the future.

    Thanks fellas.
     

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  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    No way are you going to use that existing pipe. If you use a pipe into the hub of the new top elbow, you will cut that pipe to whatever height you like.

    If you would use a spigot flange (output same diameter as a pipe), that would be because there was not space for enough pipe for an outside flange.

    For your flange, one with a stainless steel ring would be better than one with a plastic ring.

    Also, if your new flooring is porcelain, avoid having to drill the porcelain; it is hard.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
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  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    Generally, with PVC or ABS, you cut out the offending bits and add new. If you need to keep a fitting, you can use a special tool that reams out the hub so you can insert a new section of pipe (RamBit is one brand).

    Sometimes, it's tough to insert a new fitting to where you cut things out, so the use of a banded coupling is what you'd probably use. THis is a thin neoprene rubber sleeve with a metal reinforcement band around it to keep the two pipe ends aligned (not an all rubber one with just two hose clamps on it).

    Toilet flanges are designed to be installed on TOP of the finished flooring, and tightly attached to the floor with no gaps. On a remodel, you should try to put it where it was designed.
     
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  9. fallvitals

    fallvitals New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2020
    Location:
    WV
    Reach4, I most definitely am not reusing the damaged pipe. My plan to it cut it off at that straight pipe above the santee fitting, redo it. I believe I understand all that you’re saying. Is there a particular brand or model of flange that is preferred in the plumbing world? (I also picked up a korky waxless ring, even thought my new kohler toilet comes with a standard wax ring)

    Unfortunately my plan does involve drilling the porcelain tile. (I also have to drill a few holes in the kitchen in the same tile to frame up some cabinets). I have purchased some 1/4” diamond hole saw bits for the task. I’ve only used those once before and it was glass. I’ll have to practice first.

    jadnashua, thanks for that info. I am planning to install the flange ontop my finished tile. Maybe I didn’t word it well, but that’s what I plan to do!

    Was shocked the condition of the floor wasn’t worst than it was. Just purchased this new to me home, built in 1993. 2 of the 3 toilets move. Slowly working on em all. This was being the worst. Not even any nuts on the toilet bolts . The back of the toilet was filled with bricks, I guess as a counter weight? Flange was broken. Wax ring basically gone. But not much floor damage. (There’s 1x9 boards then 1/2” plywood).

    It’s a nice home, the previous owners musta been half insane with some of the crazy stuff they did.
     

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  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    If you glue a pipe in, you can cut it to the length you need. There is another kind of closet flange that you could use outside of a 3-inch pipe: an outside compression closet flange. No glue. You have to get glue right almost immediately. The compression flange could be adjusted or readjusted at leisure. The Jones Stephens C40320 cast iron 3 inch compression flange is one of those. It might require a little adjustment of the hole in the subfloor. I think it needs about 2 inches of pipe to grab onto, but you check the dimensions. Oatey 42253 165 Cast Iron Flange, 3-Inch compression is another. Those cost significantly more than a glue type.

    If you had had such a flange when you changed flooring recently, you could have loosened and removed that flange without trying to break glue.

    Oatey and Sioux Chief are the biggest brands. There are others that are good such as Jones Stephens.

    Sioux Chief 887-PM is a flange that can glue outside a 3 inch pvc pipe. That model has no knock-out. Oatey 43613 has a knock-out that you would tap with a hammer to remove the plug that permits pressure testing. Since you will not be pressure testing, the knock-out feature doesn't help you. There are more choices. These are usually called 4x3 closet flanges because they can glue into a 4 inch pipe or outside of a 3, as you would do.


    Jones Stephens C57334 stainless+pvc flange has a 6" tail 3-inch spigot. That could be used without a pipe, and I think it could be carefully cut to length before gluing in.

    If you could cut the porcelain tile so that the flange sits on the tile, but the screws don't go through the tile, you would save some significant drilling work. Relative to porcelain tile, drilling ceramic tile is easy. Ceramic tile is hard compared to almost everything else.
     
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