DJ Metal
New Member
Hey all! DJ here, long time reader, first time poster.
So I will start by saying, while I do know a bunch about old school plumbing, ever since my late old man who was a lifelong licensed, "yewn-yun" plumber, started dragging me along on jobs way back when I was 5 (a very long time ago), back in the days when we still wrapped threds with Lamp wick and slapped Pro-Dope over it and wrenched till your arms fell off, melted lead into galvanized and cast iron pipe and cemented clay pipe, used black, brass and copper pipe manual and electric cutters and threaders and didn't just buy pre-threaded lengths or plastic everything,, and everything was purchased at your neighborhood plumbing supply house where you knew everyone in the store by name and they knew you and everyone in your family! GASP! Prehistoric times, I know! LOL
Unfortunately, I have been out of the plumbing field for about 15 years now and mostly know outdated and obsolete method's and materials to use, but I am always learning whats new as fast as I possibly can, how to do things nowadays and what not to do anymore, which is about half of what I knew.
And forgive me if I ramble, I'm mostly just trying to get across what I'm doing and venting out of frustration!
OK, here goes, I have gutted everything in our bathroom, because, honestly, it was all old, shot, horrible to look at and had an awful stench that would never go away, no matter how much hot waster and bleach or air freshener you threw at it and was all done improperly and nothing was straight or level nor up to any code, AFAIK,, and apparently was all a big 1949 fire cover-up botch job by the previous owner, who apparently didn't ever hear of a level, plumb bob, T square or Speed square or hole saw bits!
The former owner passed away a few years before his kids sold my wife and I the house and well, it was all very poorly done. (you guys would prob get nauseous and hurl had you seen how bad it all was and how wrong everything was!
(Plumbing, Heating. Electrical, Doors, Window, Tiling, Water supply lines, Drains, Framing, paint and wallpapering all we're so, so bad!) lol
I removed everything, including the 10" of concrete that went from 2" above the 2"x 8" floor joists, all the way down to the lathing of the kitchen ceiling below, which I didn't even know were still in there, because every room has nice, new sheetrock ceilings, so I can only guess that they just slapped it over the old plaster to sell it faster and didn't remove all the old plaster and laths, like I had hoped?!
Anyway, upon removal of the old tiny little rusty girly toilet, which was very uncomfortable to me and every other guy who tried sitting on it, the old brass flange was mostly gone, as was the edging of the lead bend, I guess it all rotted away?,
So that was problem #1, I wish I could post photos, but my laptop and phone don't work well together!
When I broke up and removed all the concrete (prob. 4K+ lbs worth) I found that the old 4"w x 9" h x 12"l lead bend was covered by some rickety makeshift a wooden box made out of what I can only guess were the original floor planks.
When I carefully pulled that box apart I quickly saw that the lead bend also had a huge crack running across it from one side al the way around to the other and it was wide enough to stick my entire hand into (prob. #2) and explained why we often smelled "poop" in the bathroom and adjacent bedroom, mostly right after flushing, and no matter how much we washed everything in the bathroom it would still stink, which is part of why I gutted, I just HAD to know where the smell was coming from! lol
So I cut the bend down leaving only about a 6" stub of it sticking out of the cast iron hub that it was soldered into and was going to just use a PVC flange with stainless ring for the new flange at the "terlit" end and a new 90 degree long sweep pvc elbow as a new bend and a length of pvc into the old C.I. with a no hub clamp, but read in other posts on here that that is not the correct way to do it these days and I do want everything done crorrectly, saftely and of course up to today's codes.
BTW, As far as building/plumbing codes go, I live in NYC and have not read a code book in ages.
So after reading that I should probably remove the entire lead bend to do things right, I soaked everything that was wood with lots of water to aoid any fire, kept a water spray bottle with me and kept spraying the wood all around as I went along and used my trusty old propane torch with a tank of mapp gas and heated the bejeebus out of the top of the hub and lead bend till it was all nice and red hot and glowing, than I started tapping the lead bend with a hammer as the old lead started flowing out onto a tick "pan" I made of of about 10 layers of aluminum foil and got it all removed from the hub from, let's say 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock with no problem, than kept heating the inside up and continued tapping, till it became loose enough to wiggle and pull out with long channel locks, because the bottom of the hub was sitting right on the old laths with no space to torch under it I figured doing it from the inside would work as well.
It didn't take too long at all, for anyone wondering.
Once I got the lead all out and cleaned the inside of the hub I expected to, but didn't see any traces of Oakum at all, I can only guess someone either didn't use any, or it rotted away decades ago?
I clearly see the C.I. is stamped with a big "5" on top of the hub, so I assume it's real old 5" C.I. and it's I.D measured is 5-1/8" and the lead bend's I.D. is a hair wider than 4", prob. 4-1/64".
I have already bought 4" black sch. 40 DWV ABS pipe, as I've heard and read that it's better, stronger and quieter for drainage verses white sch. 40 PVC.
This brand of ABS I bought has a 4-1/2" O.D.
I also bought a 4" black DWV ABS Hub x Spigot 90 degree long sweep elbow for the other end where a new flange will eventually sit under the new toilet that I've already purchased.
I only have about 8" in height to work with from lath to top of where the floor tile height will be and also not much wiggle room left to right (the toilet is in between the shower stall and sink and the C.I. pipe is between two joists, so use of, or even space for 45 degree elbows is unavailable. and so I thought I could use something like a fernco donut to wedge the 4" ABS pipe straight into the old C.I. hub, but I am not finding a donut that is as wide as I need to tightly fit into the C.I. hub and hold the 4" ABS pipe tight as possible..
I even tried using many links in other somewhat similar threads, but those are mostly for 3" and 4" c.i. hubs and fail to show a donut size I can rely upon
Google searches were also unhelpful.
I was planning on calling Fernco and asking if they make anything in the sizes that I need for both I.D. of the C.I. and O.D. of the ABS, and I hope they don't tell me they don't make anything in the sizes I need, or no longer make anything in the sizes I need, but If that happens, should I instead go with something like Soil-O?
And if Soil-O is the way, aside from stuffing the hub with a bunch of Oakum and sealing it with Soil-O, Do I need to use anythning else or do anything else to keep it from ever having any leaks? Or should I go with something entirely different?
FWIW, I have never used Soil-O with ABS or PVC, so I know nothing about it's ability to stick and hold onto plastic pipe.
I had only used it a few times long ago to reseal a few leaky clay pipe connections, leaky cast and galvanized pipe ponnections and it always seemed to stay leak proof on those materials in drainage situations.
You time, patience, help and advice is very, very deeply appreciated!
So I will start by saying, while I do know a bunch about old school plumbing, ever since my late old man who was a lifelong licensed, "yewn-yun" plumber, started dragging me along on jobs way back when I was 5 (a very long time ago), back in the days when we still wrapped threds with Lamp wick and slapped Pro-Dope over it and wrenched till your arms fell off, melted lead into galvanized and cast iron pipe and cemented clay pipe, used black, brass and copper pipe manual and electric cutters and threaders and didn't just buy pre-threaded lengths or plastic everything,, and everything was purchased at your neighborhood plumbing supply house where you knew everyone in the store by name and they knew you and everyone in your family! GASP! Prehistoric times, I know! LOL
Unfortunately, I have been out of the plumbing field for about 15 years now and mostly know outdated and obsolete method's and materials to use, but I am always learning whats new as fast as I possibly can, how to do things nowadays and what not to do anymore, which is about half of what I knew.
And forgive me if I ramble, I'm mostly just trying to get across what I'm doing and venting out of frustration!
OK, here goes, I have gutted everything in our bathroom, because, honestly, it was all old, shot, horrible to look at and had an awful stench that would never go away, no matter how much hot waster and bleach or air freshener you threw at it and was all done improperly and nothing was straight or level nor up to any code, AFAIK,, and apparently was all a big 1949 fire cover-up botch job by the previous owner, who apparently didn't ever hear of a level, plumb bob, T square or Speed square or hole saw bits!
The former owner passed away a few years before his kids sold my wife and I the house and well, it was all very poorly done. (you guys would prob get nauseous and hurl had you seen how bad it all was and how wrong everything was!
(Plumbing, Heating. Electrical, Doors, Window, Tiling, Water supply lines, Drains, Framing, paint and wallpapering all we're so, so bad!) lol
I removed everything, including the 10" of concrete that went from 2" above the 2"x 8" floor joists, all the way down to the lathing of the kitchen ceiling below, which I didn't even know were still in there, because every room has nice, new sheetrock ceilings, so I can only guess that they just slapped it over the old plaster to sell it faster and didn't remove all the old plaster and laths, like I had hoped?!
Anyway, upon removal of the old tiny little rusty girly toilet, which was very uncomfortable to me and every other guy who tried sitting on it, the old brass flange was mostly gone, as was the edging of the lead bend, I guess it all rotted away?,
So that was problem #1, I wish I could post photos, but my laptop and phone don't work well together!
When I broke up and removed all the concrete (prob. 4K+ lbs worth) I found that the old 4"w x 9" h x 12"l lead bend was covered by some rickety makeshift a wooden box made out of what I can only guess were the original floor planks.
When I carefully pulled that box apart I quickly saw that the lead bend also had a huge crack running across it from one side al the way around to the other and it was wide enough to stick my entire hand into (prob. #2) and explained why we often smelled "poop" in the bathroom and adjacent bedroom, mostly right after flushing, and no matter how much we washed everything in the bathroom it would still stink, which is part of why I gutted, I just HAD to know where the smell was coming from! lol
So I cut the bend down leaving only about a 6" stub of it sticking out of the cast iron hub that it was soldered into and was going to just use a PVC flange with stainless ring for the new flange at the "terlit" end and a new 90 degree long sweep pvc elbow as a new bend and a length of pvc into the old C.I. with a no hub clamp, but read in other posts on here that that is not the correct way to do it these days and I do want everything done crorrectly, saftely and of course up to today's codes.
BTW, As far as building/plumbing codes go, I live in NYC and have not read a code book in ages.
So after reading that I should probably remove the entire lead bend to do things right, I soaked everything that was wood with lots of water to aoid any fire, kept a water spray bottle with me and kept spraying the wood all around as I went along and used my trusty old propane torch with a tank of mapp gas and heated the bejeebus out of the top of the hub and lead bend till it was all nice and red hot and glowing, than I started tapping the lead bend with a hammer as the old lead started flowing out onto a tick "pan" I made of of about 10 layers of aluminum foil and got it all removed from the hub from, let's say 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock with no problem, than kept heating the inside up and continued tapping, till it became loose enough to wiggle and pull out with long channel locks, because the bottom of the hub was sitting right on the old laths with no space to torch under it I figured doing it from the inside would work as well.
It didn't take too long at all, for anyone wondering.
Once I got the lead all out and cleaned the inside of the hub I expected to, but didn't see any traces of Oakum at all, I can only guess someone either didn't use any, or it rotted away decades ago?
I clearly see the C.I. is stamped with a big "5" on top of the hub, so I assume it's real old 5" C.I. and it's I.D measured is 5-1/8" and the lead bend's I.D. is a hair wider than 4", prob. 4-1/64".
I have already bought 4" black sch. 40 DWV ABS pipe, as I've heard and read that it's better, stronger and quieter for drainage verses white sch. 40 PVC.
This brand of ABS I bought has a 4-1/2" O.D.
I also bought a 4" black DWV ABS Hub x Spigot 90 degree long sweep elbow for the other end where a new flange will eventually sit under the new toilet that I've already purchased.
I only have about 8" in height to work with from lath to top of where the floor tile height will be and also not much wiggle room left to right (the toilet is in between the shower stall and sink and the C.I. pipe is between two joists, so use of, or even space for 45 degree elbows is unavailable. and so I thought I could use something like a fernco donut to wedge the 4" ABS pipe straight into the old C.I. hub, but I am not finding a donut that is as wide as I need to tightly fit into the C.I. hub and hold the 4" ABS pipe tight as possible..
I even tried using many links in other somewhat similar threads, but those are mostly for 3" and 4" c.i. hubs and fail to show a donut size I can rely upon
Google searches were also unhelpful.
I was planning on calling Fernco and asking if they make anything in the sizes that I need for both I.D. of the C.I. and O.D. of the ABS, and I hope they don't tell me they don't make anything in the sizes I need, or no longer make anything in the sizes I need, but If that happens, should I instead go with something like Soil-O?
And if Soil-O is the way, aside from stuffing the hub with a bunch of Oakum and sealing it with Soil-O, Do I need to use anythning else or do anything else to keep it from ever having any leaks? Or should I go with something entirely different?
FWIW, I have never used Soil-O with ABS or PVC, so I know nothing about it's ability to stick and hold onto plastic pipe.
I had only used it a few times long ago to reseal a few leaky clay pipe connections, leaky cast and galvanized pipe ponnections and it always seemed to stay leak proof on those materials in drainage situations.
You time, patience, help and advice is very, very deeply appreciated!