Connect kitchen drain to 2nd floor main drain

[DrDraake]

Hey everyone,

Hope you guys here can help because I don't have faith in my contractors plumbing skills. He's tried to use sanitary tees horizontal, told me to vent out the bottom of the outside wall for a kitchen island sink, never heard of a island loop ven, and handful of other other things that he said "I've been doing this for years and never had a problem". I told him I don't care if that is how you do it, I want it done correctly.

With that being said here at the photos.












We are remodeling our first floor and had to move the 2nd floor main drain. The second floor has two full bathtooms and laundry. The new kitchen ties into the main drop at the back of the 90° elbow as a low heel inlet, it is a 3x3x2. From what I found online that fitting should have the 2" side pointing up for a vent, not sideways for the kitchen to drain into.

The original main drain turned 90° went between the joist and dropped straight down to the main drain. The vent attached to the side of the elbow of the toilet flange.

What fitting or way should this be plumbed in to meet code?

Thank you in advance for your help!
Matthew

 

[James Henry]

Copper pipes should be brazed when installed under concrete not soldered.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[DrDraake]

Copper pipes should be brazed when installed under concrete not soldered.

James, holy cow! How did you catch that!? Just from the solder and torch sitting there? Thank you! I looked it up and you are correct it does need to be brazed.

I have two different types of brazing rods. The aluminum rod is 33,000 psi and the bronze flux-coated rod is 50,000 - 60,000 psi. Which one should be used on the joints? The bronze rod I would assume?

 

[DrDraake]

Looks like you have a sanitary tee laid on its back changing from vertical to horizontal.

That’s improper, it should be a combination.

Thanks for the reply Best.

If your referring to this photo.


It does look like a sanitary tee. This is the fitting I was talking about. It is an elbow with a low heel inlet. I found another post on the here talking about it.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/pvc-fitting-using-elbow-w-inlet-w-toilet-drain.3214/



This is the fitting that is there.

 

[Sylvan]

NYC plbg code copper underground (water supply) Type K above ground L

Copper lines hot and cold separated by at least 6"
708.3.3 Changes of direction.
Cleanouts shall be installed at each change of direction of the building drain or horizontal waste or soil lines greater than 45 degrees (0.79 rad)in the building sewer, building drain, and horizontal waste or soil lines Where more than one change of direction occurs in a run of piping, only one cleanout shall be required for each 40 feet (12 192 mm) of
developed length of the drainage piping.

708.3.4 Base of stack.
A cleanout shall be provided at the
the base of each waste or soil stack

605.14.1 Brazed joints.
All joint surfaces shall be cleaned. An approved flux shall be applied where required. The joints
shall be brazed with a filler metal conforming to AWS A5.8.

 

[Plumber01]

Is that a black iron gas pipe under ground I see? Yikes!

 

[Terry]

The lo-heel needs to be replaced with a combo or wye fitting with a 45 added.

 

[DrDraake]

Crazy question, I looked at the copper pipe and it is type "M". Either way I would need to change it out for type "L" or "K". Would it be better to change out the copper for PEX pipe?

 

[DrDraake]

Is that a black iron gas pipe under ground I see? Yikes!

Oh no, yes it is black iron pipe for the gas line to the double oven and the cook top.

More bad news?

 

[DrDraake]

The lo-heel needs to be replaced with a combo or wye fitting with a 45 added.

I need a 3"x2"x3". Can I use a reducer without any issues with waste coming from the kitchen?

 

[Terry]

You can use a 3x2 reducer to pick up the kitchen.

The santee or lo-heel on it's back had no directional to prevent poop from spreading both ways when it landed.

 

[DrDraake]

You can use a 3x2 reducer to pick up the kitchen.

The santee or lo-heel on it's back had no directional to prevent poop from spreading both ways when it landed.

What prompted the post on the forum was water sounds coming from the kitchen side and gurgling sounds.

Should I also replace the top elbow with an elbow that has a side outlet for a vent pipe to attach?

 

[DrDraake]

I use this.....
https://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/Products/Alloys/Brazing/Phos-Copper/Stay-Silv-15.aspx

When I do this......
View attachment 70741
Be sure to use type L copper or better.

TheMostHackEver, the copper pipe in there is type "M". With having to replace the copper pipe already and needing to buy sheathing, and new brazing rods should I go PEX instead?

Is there any other benefits besides being cheaper and easier to work with?

I already have all the PEX tools and connectors. I've personally always used PEX and installing radiant heat walls myself. The contractor was adamant that copper is superior and PEX is worthless and will fail.

 

[Plumber01]

Oh no, yes it is black iron pipe for the gas line to the double oven and the cook top.

More bad news?

Well, for starters, black iron isn't rated for direct burial unless its coated, which IMO isn't good enough. Usually see CSST or poly gas pipe underground. TracPipe makes a pre-sleeved gas pipe( see below about sleeving).

Second, gas pipe under slab in a building needs to be sleeved in a conduit. Depending on weather or not the connection starts outside the building or inside, the conduit may need to be sealed as well. Some areas require a concrete trough with removable metal panels over the piping. Natural gas or propane? Propane is never allowed under slab inside a building as far as I know.

You should really pull a permit for this work and have it inspected. And fire the guy that did all this mess.

 

[DrDraake]

Use soft copper and roll it out and up into the walls to make your joints above the concrete floor with lead free solder.

Soft copper? I would still need to protect the copper via conduit or other method? That is better then running straight PEX in the trench? Right now everything after my water softener is all PEX I would be converting to copper.

What benefit is there to bury soft copper in the trench vs PEX?

 

[James Henry]

Soft copper? I would still need to protect the copper via conduit or other method?

https://www.mccoys.com/shop/red-006-pipe-sleeve-for-12-1-tubing-200-roll/p.22254002

 

[Sylvan]

NYC does NOT allow any plastic to be used for the potable water system NOT even for hooking up a toilet tank

Type "M" some people use it for heating I never use any copper other than L above ground and K for underground

M TUBING is NOT for the potable water system SEE Below

Funny how some people spew what is allowed with no knowledge of the local codes.


TABLE 605.4
WATER DISTRIBUTION PIPE
MATERIAL STANDARD
Brass pipe ASTM B 43
Copper or copper-alloy pipe ASTM B 42; ASTM B 302
Copper or copper-alloy tubing
(Type K, L) ASTM B 75; ASTM B 88; <<<<< SEE NO "M"
ASTM B 251; ASTM B 447
Stainless steel pipe
(Type 304/304L) ASTM A 312; ASTM A 778
Stainless steel pipe
(Type 316/316L) ASTM A 312; ASTM A 778

 

[Sylvan]

Use which ever pipe you’d like, they’re both acceptable.

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG

 

[Sylvan]

Crazy question, I looked at the copper pipe and it is type "M". Either way I would need to change it out for type "L" or "K". Would it be better to change out the copper for pex pipe?

A lot of unknowing handymen have no idea what the local code requirements are.

NYC because of the population and also we have a lot of high rises has more stringent requirements as far as materials are allowed

I had to send my employees for Gas certification 12 hours course with a written test and this course cost $1,800

The old NYC plumbing code from 1968 I still use as it is not as lax as the IPC

 

[wwhitney]

OP, are you in NYC or elsewhere in New York state? Apparently the code requirements are different.

Cheers, Wayne

The OP is near Albany, New York.
added by Terry Love