Choosing Iron Filter

[Reach4]

I probably said a bright light. That could be a flashlight. It could be a "work light".

Yes, the point is to measure the bed expansion. Lets say that the top of the shadow is 32 inches above the gravel. 35% bed expansion would raise the top of the shadow to 42.2 inches.

 

[Mswlogo]

I have them sending a 10 (that was included) and added 11 and 13 gpm button and the tank is “natural color”.

So say I ran 11 gpm. And shadow looked good. How would I know they are washed enough (without damaging media from being not enough)? Since time, temp and frequency matters too. I hate over doing something that’s not needed ( just in case).



I also read at these high flow rates you don’t necessary need to run as long.

Thanks for your advice.

 

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[Mswlogo]

Tank is not painted.

Measured today and water is 51F

Measured flow rate at the end of a 75ft 5/8” (maybe a 3/4”) garden hose and got 13 gpm 50 psi (continuous).

 

[Reach4]

I see I did say flashlight, at least once, and probably more:
https://terrylove.com/forums/index....s-expanding-bed-adequately.91747/#post-660547
Yes, it is to check expansion.

Here are a few threads that will each add a bit to your knowledge.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index....ckwash-how-high-lift.99907/page-3#post-719104
This one includes some nice photos of bed expansion.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/iron-out-to-clean-katalox-light.75658/

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....r-and-water-softener-setup.91001/#post-654375

 

[Mswlogo]

Couple questions now that my system is on its way.

I noticed the raw water has a bit more sediment than I recall. I’m Used to only seeing it after a sediment filter.

Can the Filox handle the sediment along with the iron?

Should I keep a 20” cartridge filter in front of the Iron filter? Seller warned that if the cartridge filter starts to load up it may reduce your flow rate needed for proper backwash and recommended not filtering before the Iron filter.

What about an automatic back washing sediment filter?

Does a normal regen cycle put the filter back in filter mode and flush it (foreword) before going back on line? Will the raw water ever get exposed to filtered side when switching flows? My head keeps picturing “dirty” water flushing out the media. And sent to the clean side after first use. I assume that thinking is wrong.

Also I was looking for the different DLFC plugs for the Clack valve. Are these primarily out of the U.K.? I’m used to Fleck valves and find parts easy in the USA. Didn’t see much for Clack in USA.

 

[Reach4]

It seems clear that the filter would act as a mechanical filter, but whether that is 40 microns or 5 microns, I find no reference.

If you keep the cartridge filter, maybe switch to a 200 micron, or just remove the cartridge altogether. This should still collect rocks if any. Even an empty housing might keep you from backwashing at 20 gpm-- the rate I think best.

When you add the media, wear that N95 mask for dust. If there is no dust, having the mask in place won't hurt. With lighter media, you let the initial water in slowly. Then you do repeated backwashes to be rid of fines. In some media, you soak overnight. Now with your heavy solid media, this may be unnecessary. Would not hurt.

Regarding a normal regen, the unit will backwash, washing out any collected particles.

I would consider having a way to measure the pressure into the valve during backwash. This could be with a boiler drain valve which can mount a GHT pressure gauge. You will be collecting and sharing data.

For the drain line, you might consider 1 inch rather than 3/4.

For backwash time, you will experiment, including noting what your well can keep up with. But I foresee multiple backwashes when the media is new.

 

[Mswlogo]

Thanks for the tips. I always wear a mask with unknown material.

Even with 75ft of 5/8" hose (might be 3/4) it's doing 13 GPM now (set at 50 psi "constant"). So I think backwash rate should be fine. But that’s with no restriction or back pressure. Other than gravity and resistance in the well line.

Drain line is 1” but feels a little overkill.

 

[Mswlogo]

Question: The seller of the iron filter suggested trying 1cu ft of media first. He suggested that partly because initially I was gonna get 1 cu ft filter. But I wanted the Vortech tank and they only sold them starting at 1.5 cu ft.

So do you think it’s worth trying 1.0 cu ft first even though it’s the diameter of 1.5 cu ft tank and so the media won’t be as deep as in a 1 cu ft tank.

Anything to reduce backwash is a plus. And the 1 cu ft is said to cover up to 10 ppm iron. I have 7.7 ppm. But it seems to vary some.

 

[Reach4]

Question: The seller of the iron filter suggested trying 1cu ft of media first. He suggested that partly because initially I was gonna get 1 cu ft filter. But I wanted the Vortech tank and they only sold them starting at 1.5 cu ft.

So do you think it’s worth trying 1.0 cu ft first even though it’s the diameter of 1.5 cu ft tank and so the media won’t be as deep as in a 1 cu ft tank.

Anything to reduce backwash is a plus. And the 1 cu ft is said to cover up to 10 ppm iron. I have 7.7 ppm. But it seems to vary some.

I think with 1 cuft in a 54x10 tank you could go to 50% bed expansion with no danger of losing media. But that is not what your objective was. I suspect you were wondering if you could get by with less gpm on the backwash with 1 cuft of media instead of 1.5. I would not think so. For lower gpm flush, I think you need a lower diameter tank.

And on the relationship of gpm and sqft, I think you are looking for a given velocity to fluff the media. To get the same velocity, a bigger tank needs more gpm.

 

[Mswlogo]

All installed. 0 PPM Iron.

All went smooth. Except when slow backwashing I was at 7.5 gpm and the media was extremely high in the tank. So I opened where you put the DLFC and it had the 13 gpm. So I put the 11 gpm in. Measured flow and it went UP to 10 gpm. Then I noticed media was coming out. Ugh. Slowed down again and it was stable and was still at 10 gpm.

All I can think of is the “dust” was trapped in the media at the bottom and when I restarted with smaller DLFC I opening things to fast (because I thought I was done) and it kicked up a storm in the tank.

After that cleared up I was getting about 4” rise in a 10” tank while back washing with the 11 gpm DLFC. My calc says that’s about 12%. Min is 15%. So I put the 13 gpm DLFC in again. Still close to 10 gpm. But media did rise about 1” and that made it 5” rise which is 15%

My hose I’m backwashing with is a little restricted. Once I get the 1” Pex drain in, I think it will be a little better. My guess is I might hit 12 gpm.

 

[Reach4]

Looks good.

I am confused by " I was at 7.5 gpm and the media was extremely high in the tank. ". Normally, when not backwashing, the media is about 2/3 from the top. Are you saying that your tank had a lot more more media than that?

Your idea about the fines getting backwashed out (better late than never) makes sense.

 

[Mswlogo]

Looks good.

I am confused by " I was at 7.5 gpm and the media was extremely high in the tank. ". Normally, when not backwashing, the media is about 2/3 from the top. Are you saying that your tank had a lot more more media than that?

Your idea about the fines getting backwashed out (better late than never) makes sense.

Nope media rose like 100% or more at 7.5 gpm. And it was just a few inches from the top. It was that way for like 30 minutes. So it was not a cloud or dust.

You can see tape on the tank of low and high marks (now towards end of process). It was WAY above those. I don’t know what happened.

So I stopped, switched from 13 to 11 gpm.

It rose up again and now I was at 10 gpm. But I decided it should be safe. And let go. Next thing you know media is coming out.

So I slowed it WAY down again (less than 1 gpm) and started over (with a slow backwash). Probably 4-5 hours of slow back washing and ramping it up.

Then things looks normal.

Not enough rise, so I put the 13 gpm back in.

Still getting ~10 gpm but the rise is now 15% (or 5 inches).

What I lost in media was small. Maybe 1 quart.

Is it normal to lose some? Maybe some light bits had to rise and flush out and that’s what I was seeing when it was high?

 

[Reach4]

It is normal to backwash fines out, expecially with new media.

From a terminology point of view, and easy numbers, let's say the distance between the domes is 48 inches. The media would normally come up 32 inches when sitting there. If the media rose to 8 inches more, or to 40 inches, that would be called 25% bed expansion. At 50%, media would blow out the top.

Anyway, if your media was stuck before, it's not now. That's good.

 

[Mswlogo]

It is normal to backwash fines out, expecially with new media.

From a terminology point of view, and easy numbers, let's say the distance between the domes is 48 inches. The media would normally come up 32 inches when sitting there. If the media rose to 8 inches more, or to 40 inches, that would be called 25% bed expansion. At 50%, media would blow out the top.

Anyway, if your media was stuck before, it's not now. That's good.

I think “the fines” as you call it were hovering high at 7.5 gpm. Not enough to flush them out. Once I restarted I think some stuff low in the media bubbled up and then the flow rate increased (regardless of which DLFC button) and it flushed out and things stabilized. I ran several regen cycles. And it all looked good.

I’m pretty sure I can get it up to 12 gpm or higher. And get the expansion up a bit.

I had a shut off on the hose. But I think that is wider than the DLFC. But I think a clean run of 1” Pex will help the flow a bit. I have not even tried to increase the pump constant pressure. It held steady at 50 psi while backwashing for hours. So that was all good.

I need to add a dry well to drain now. The House is still being built. Trying to figure out how to get outside without freezing (I’m in NH) and not have to drill a hole through foundation below frost line and potentially let water in. Rather come from above and go down hill into dry well (outside). Was thinking of running like 3” PVC then slide 1” pipe with insulation around it, inside the PVC. Something like that.

 

[Reach4]

If you drill, seal from outside. I am thinking marine sealant, and then a bunch of hydraulic cement.

I think you can come in higher, but you need to make sure the line will drain out. A vacuum breaker at the peak of the pipe will facilitate that.

Once backwash starts, that water will be relatively warm.

 

[Mswlogo]

Water is 51F in the summer. It can freeze quick when it’s -10F out.

Worried it leaves a coating of ice at the end. Then next time it adds another layer. Will 51F water thaw it out when it’s -10F out? Maybe.

 

[Reach4]

Water from the well will be fairly constant all year. It will not be freezing. And when that water passes thru your system and plumbing, it will get warmer still until you eject it out of your heated envelope toward your dry well. If that water keeps going, it is not going to freeze.

 

[Mswlogo]

So I finally got a chance to put the 1” Pex backwash drain in.

Holy smoke what a racket. It went from 11 gpm to 15+ with the 13 gpm plug.

I had the same issue again that the entire volume turned dark ( only 5 min of filtering) and I lost a little bit of media again.

I put the 11 gpm plug in and it came down to 11 gpm and the expansion is still quite a bit more than the hose.

I’m thinking of making the first few feet of drain heavy duty 3/4 garden hose to tame the noise. I clipped the line to the ceiling which is the main floor.

 

[Reach4]

After reading #11, I did not think you would be putting the 13 GPM DLFC again. Your media has clearly not been stuck lately. I am thinking 30% to 35% bed expansion would be a good target.

At the end of backwash, do you get a glug glug sound?

 

[Mswlogo]

After reading #11, I did not think you would be putting the 13 GPM DLFC again. Your media has clearly not been stuck lately. I am thinking 30% to 35% bed expansion would be a good target.

At the end of backwash, do you get a glug glug sound?

I can't remember now, I couldn't even remember what I had in their

I think I kind of convinced myself everything was fine with the 13 and it was the burst of a first strong back wash that stirred things up a lot even though I had brought it up VERY gradually. Once things settled down I had put the 13 back in. But it was still restricted because I was using a 3/4" hose. I had done like 6 back washes (once a week, water is not being used but I still back wash it once a week manually to not have problems).

But I was a bit surprised how much difference it made going to the 1" with the same plug.

I suspect again, it just stirred things up again on a first backwash at this higher rate. And I suspect 13 button (~15 gpm) would be safe. But feels overkill.

The first time some media came out it had some grit. This time it was super fine particles and both times I see no difference in level when it's filtering.