Bathroom trap sizes and fitting selection...

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hhcibtpaun

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I managed to get some pics today and decided I need to slowly make my way up from the basement. Here is generally what I am dealing with. After this picture I demolished the concrete tub, so that will be replaced with a laundry tub and the washer and dryer will be to the right of the sink. If you can see the orange wire powering the HWH, if you look behind you can kind of see a hole in the upper wall. This is where the stack will go up through the house.

generalview2.jpg


My first question is related to draining the washer and laundry sink. Currently there is no drain for the washer, so I assume they put the overflow in the sink, and the sink had drained into the galvanized (I think) pipe on the bottom right (where the PVC is sitting). My plan if allowable would be to get rid of the galvanized drain and drain right into the 4" pipe on the left (other wall).

olddrain.jpg

So, that wall would look something like this. That upper blue line is where my kitchen sink drain (2") will eventually tie into. I assume the WYE is the correct fitting?

The thing I am not sure about is what is the proper way to tie the laundry sink into the 4" pipe. I have it mocked up with the WYE in the orientation that would be easiest, but maybe not legal?

BasementDrains.jpg


I was thinking of three possible ways to orient the WYE. The Three picture is similar to one, but rotated down toward the ground to lower my connection point. The Drain from the washer to the wall may run like 7 feet, so about 2" drop and it is probably running under the laundry sink. Maybe it is about 16" high by the time it hits the wall with the drain pipe.

One:
rotation1.jpg
Two:
rotation2.jpg
Three:
Rotation3.jpg


My general questions.

1. For the 2" washer/sink drain into the 4", is the WYE a proper fitting or do I need a sanitary tee. Which orientation is OK, or can they all work?

2. If I put a 2" p-trap on the washer drain, can that vent the laundry sink. The washer will have it's own vent...I just need to figure out the best way to accomplish.

Before I get any further, am I headed in an OK direction?

TIA....Mike
 

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hhcibtpaun

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I was reviewing this site for the proper way to do a washer drain and found this:

No standpipe receptor for
any clothes washer shall extend more than thirty (30)
inches (762 mm), nor less than eighteen (18) inches
(457 mm) above its trap. No trap for any clothes
washer standpipe receptor shall be installed below the
floor, but shall be roughed in not less than six (6)
inches (152 mm) and not more than eighteen (18)
inches (457 mm) above the floor.


Where I was planning to put my washer I am not sure I can do it 18" above the floor. I am about 8 ft away from the horizontal waste pipe (4"). After attaching the WYE and other fittings to get the 2" drain connected, I am at about 22". Then to come the other 8'. that would put me at about 24". Where is the trap measured to (where it connects to the drain)?

TIA...Mike
 

hhcibtpaun

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I managed to do a mockup of my basement and kitchen today. Before I glue together I was hoping for feedback on whether I am good to go. Here is my basement plan:


basement-low.jpg


To the left of the sanitary tee would be my laundry sink, and to the right where the trap is, I would put the washer standpipe. Hoping the arrangement on the left wall is acceptable (all piping is 2"). NOTE: Tubing lengths may be a tad longer I was just mocking up with whatever pieces I had.

The pipe coming out from the dual sanitary tee would be the vent for the basement fixtures and head up through the kitchen to pick up the vent in the kitchen.

Here is the kitchen plan. I did not want to drill out the studs yet so imagine a pipe connecting the 2 bends. The only difference between the two configurations is one connects both vents with a WYE and the other is a Sanitary Tee upside down. The pipe on the right would be the vent coming up from the basement. Maybe in the final form the vent bends will be tighter instead of the long bends, May just boil down to what connectors are cheaper.

Kitchen-sanitee-low.jpg
Kitchen-WYE-low.jpg


Is one configuration better than the other? Also for the horizontal sections of the vent, do they need to have any slope down?

Thanks...Mike
 

Reach4

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Especially for the top mockup, add a cleanout from above.

How about making the part below the double santee (or better would be double fixture fitting) out of 3 inch?
 

hhcibtpaun

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Especially for the top mockup, add a cleanout from above.

How about making the part below the double santee (or better would be double fixture fitting) out of 3 inch?
Thanks. I was originally looking for the double fixture but home depot did not have. I can get one though. As for the 3 inch, would everything to the 4" drain be 3"? I figured since the laundry sink would see infrequent use the 2" would be enough. Where would I put the cleanouts? everything in the kitchen will be behind the walls.
 

Reach4

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The IPC seems to want laundry standpipe plus anything else to be 3-inch in the newer versions of IPC.
 

hhcibtpaun

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The IPC seems to want laundry standpipe plus anything else to be 3-inch in the newer versions of IPC.

OK, thanks. The borough I live in is using the 2009 IPC code. My latest quandry is trying to figure out if I can drain my sink into the drain I mapped out. The bottom of my sink is at like 18", but my drain pipe that goes to the other wall is at like 22". I am not sure I can get the trap to work in that configuration. There is a galvanized drain that I could maybe re-purpose just for the sink, but I was hoping to get rid of that altogether....That may be only 1/5 inches. You can see it in the pics of the basement plumbing if you look close (to the left).

Thanks...Mike
 

Reach4

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The bottom of my sink is at like 18", but my drain pipe that goes to the other wall is at like 22".

Are the dimensions height above the floor?

The other wall? Do you mean under the breaker box? Maybe you could make a sketch. Concentrate on what you want to work more than what it takes to make it work. Does https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/basement-low-jpg.85869/[/i] describe what you want to do? Or is there something else?

The output of a p-trap trap must stay horizontal (falling 1/4 inch per foot is considered horizontal) until the line is vented.
 

Terry

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The washer standpipe is going to skip right over the double san cross fitting. It's not a good idea.
The laundry tray and the washer should be plumbed with their own venting and not have the waste combined in a cross fitting.
 

hhcibtpaun

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The washer standpipe is going to skip right over the double san cross fitting. It's not a good idea.

Yeah, I guess I could see that happening. Would the double fixture fitting work better, or still same issue?

Reach4,

Yes, the other wall under the breaker box. This is what I was hoping I could do - https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/basement-low-jpg.85869/, but the devil is in the details. If you look at the cinder block to the left. That little red plug is the existing drain for the old sink. I was hoping to ditch that, but I could maybe re-use and plumb the washer separately. I am not sure how difficult it would be to attach to that (maybe just a fernco) or if I pull the existing pipe out and fashion some PVC to the CI fitting.

I think I have the following options.

1. Try to make my proposed picture work somehow,
2. Move the sink to the wall where the electrical panel is, then I can drain right into the 4" horizontal pipe. (not sure if there is a minimum distance I need to keep from the electrical panel).
3. Get rid of the sink altogether and just have the washer in the basement.

Obviously 1 would be my preference, but if I had to ditch the sink, I am not sure I would lose too much sleep. Or maybe I just hook to the galvanized pipe for the sink and see how that works.

Thanks...Mike
 

hhcibtpaun

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So, I think I have my solution for the laundry sink. Since I think the trap outlet would be too low to reach the drain being used for the washer, I think I will just connect to the old drain. Originally, I wanted to get rid of that since it was galvanized. It dawned on me today that I could just maybe pull the galvanized pipe out of the hub and stick PVC in it. Her is what I have going on:

both-hubs-crop.jpg
measure.jpg


Th e pipe on the right is what I want to remove. I assume that is lead in there? Is that something I heat up? I have searched the web and I think I have seen approaches like drilling, dremel, heating up.....I figure I would give the smaller pipe a try and if all goes well maybe I work on removing the 4" pipe on the left. I also have seen people talk about using a chisel, but my fear is I might break something....

Is there a "best" way for a novice to do this? I assume if I get the pipe out, I could then use a fernco donut/bushing the connect the PVC???

Thanks...Mike
 

hhcibtpaun

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I was able to get the galvanized pipe out of the hub. I ended up drilling some holes in the lead, hitting it with some heat and then using the leverage of the pipe and a 5lb sledge I got the pipe out, then a scuffy pad and some alcohol. It seems like the ID is just over 3". My 3" plug would not seal until I wrapped some cove base into the mix. So maybe the ID is about 3.25". The hole at the base of the "hub" seems small. or maybe that is just the way it is.

hub3.jpg


Now that I have this cleaned up. I change my drain plan slightly. I am thinking maybe I drain both teh washer and the laundry sink into this.

Here is what I am thinking:

newWasher.jpg


Here is the general idea:

- Everything would be 2".
- I would use a Ferno Donut/Bushing to connect the PVC into the HUB (just need to find the right size)
- In the middle would be the laundry sink and to the right would be the washer stand pipe and trap. For the vent, could I place a vent where the purple mark is to vent both the sink and the washer? if so, would I use a WYE here?
Is the hole in the hub big enough?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks...Mike
 

hhcibtpaun

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View attachment 86024

- In the middle would be the laundry sink and to the right would be the washer stand pipe and trap. For the vent, could I place a vent where the purple mark is to vent both the sink and the washer? if so, would I use a WYE here?
Is the hole in the hub big enough?
May try to glue up my plumbing this long weekend. Can I get by with a vent where the purple line is for both the Washer and Sink?

TIA...Mike
 

hhcibtpaun

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pic in post 35 not properly vented

Thanks. Is there a location that will allow me to vent both the WM and Sink on one vent, or do I just need a vent for each. If one for each, would the location called out work for the sink (which is in the middle)?

Also, in post 35 I have a Sanitary Tee sitting on the pipe (above red brick), could I use something like that as a vent in that location (for the WM)?

Thanks...Mike
 
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Jeff H Young

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missed that santee it takes care of the w/m but the other santee needs to be upstream of the wye conection.
you can tie the sink into a w/m standpipe providing its withen 30 inches of each other (another option)
 

wwhitney

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Thanks. Is there a location that will allow me to vent both the WM and Sink on one vent, or do I just need a vent for each.

If you have only a single horizontal drain, and the laundry sink connects to it with a horizontal combo, then a vent just downstream of that combo could vent both the standpipe and the laundry sink. The vent would have to be close enough to work for the standpipe if the laundry sink weren't there, i.e. within 2" of fall of the outlet of the 2" standpipe trap. This is something the IPC allows called common venting, for any 2 fixtures).


Cheers, Wayne
 
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