Am I Getting Hosed???

[Terry]

Most bids are based on what has worked before.
After a while, you just know.

You can't justify your every move and thought to everyone that you deal with.

If you did, there wouldn't be enough time in the day to get any work done.
The simple bid, that most people use, is
"(plumbing fixtures) x (dollar amount)."

When you eat out, it's something like , give me a hamburger.
I don't need to know the cost of the meat, the bun, cheese, relish, ketchup, mustard, onions, insurance, building rent, utilitities, wages, advertising, phone bills, bag it goes in, cash register, tables and chairs, and on and on.

Just give me the darn burger.
If it's too much, I'll buy it somewhere else.

Most construction workers are doing construction, not because they like paperwork and math so much,
They do construction work because they like working with their hands and building things.

When I was building houses, most of the subs had a quick way of estimating the work.
Some was by square footage, area, angle, step downs, cutouts, boxes, and after a while, you could look at a print and pretty much know what the other subs were going to ask for the job, without knowing anything about their multiple costing methods.
It was pretty much KISS

 

[vaplumber]

Granted, you have to take into account what works in your area. Many of you are in an area where you can choose what you want or dont want to do. Many can get picky with estimates. How ever what may work for one of you in your area will not work for me in my area. For the job you are doing, many would not object to doing the rough in and leaving you the grunt work. It just seems aweful high for roughing in a tub/shower and sink drain lines plus a few supply lines. I could not even begin to make a true estimate with out seeing your future room and piping layout. We did recently replumb a back to back bath and kitchen and basement laundry in an older home. If I remember correctly, the bill came to just slightly over $3000, how ever we used all cpvc on the supply and pvc on the few old drain lines which we replaced. No copper was used. You have to factor this in to your budget also. What I am looking at is that my job was in an existing structure, and we did have to work in side of one wall, and also a muddy partial crawl space under an addition on one end of the house, yet your plumber wants the same money just for a bath rough in, how ever as some one did say earlier, its really hard to tell without seeing the job to be done.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Gary Swart]

This topic has be beat to death, but one more whack won't hurt. It does seem quite excessive for this job as you describe it. I certainly would not hire this person unless/until I had at least 2 more estimates that were in the same ballpark. I learned a long time ago that many plumbers don't like these kinds of jobs. The prefer big, new construction jobs where they can move in a spend several to many days without moving and without the homeowner looking over their shoulder. I agree with some of the others that this guy probably doesn't want the job so he has given you a skyhigh price.

 

[Mike50]

My 2 cents worth.
If I don't want to do a job, I just say so. I say, " I can't right now." And, I usually leave it go at that. I could ask for more money to turn the person off, but, then; am I burning a bridge in doing so? Might be down the road, I might want to do a job for him, or he might send me someone I might want to do a job for; but, if I play a game with him, I might end up just hurting myself. Honesty men, always be honest.

Plus, why put that other person in a position where he has no idea what you are doing, then, starts to have to waste his time in finding out if that quote was a fair one, etc. I believe firmly, in my humble opinion, what goes around, comes around. Not to fail to mention, once he finds out, you hurt your professional reputation. He will talk. Everyone talks. Sometimes, in a salon, over drinks, in the office, in the yard talking to a neighbor while mowing the grass...the opportunities to get your name tarnished are endless.

No doubt there are ways to get rid of problematic potential customers.
Every situation is different and varies from business to business.

An early mentor of mine told me to make sure that anyone (customer) you come in contact leave you better off for having spoken with you...it doesn't matter how small it may be.

I have lived/survived thru 3 recessions as I recall. Seems to happen every 10-12 years or so.

The reason I survived while competetiors went south was due to one quality.

RELATIONSHIPS.

Your phone doesn't ring--You do the calling.
Who the hell are you going to call if those relationships werent established in good times...??

I try to give everyone superlative service and respect.
From the 20 yo kid making a 100 dollar purchase to the millionaire spending 80 grand. It just works for me.

You know what...in my business a few of those 20 yo kids I treated well
became millionaires and big ticket consumers.

"Treat people well on you way up.....because you may meet them again on your way down"

My comment on *overbidding* to get rid of someone is this:

It Suks.
You make the consumer feel stupid, insulted and a little humiliated.
congratulations...
If your interpersonal skillz are that bad--get someone to answer your phone.
Do what you do well.


Mike

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

feel stupid, insulted and a little humiliated.

Mike

Wow, that is exactly how I feel when I go around like a monkey giving out estimates and watch my competition get the job.


I don't cater to the price shoppers and never will. If you've heard of me and know my reputation, that will propel my success in business long before being some effin guppie in the trade being goody goody to every sympathetic out there.

There are a growing number of my wannabe customers that have felt the brunt of my attitude when it comes to wasting my time. I'd rather spend it with family and be broke than to let perfect strangers hustle me for my knowledge.

 

[Gary Swart]

I think there is a difference in quoting a price that may be somewhat higher than some cut-rate individuals may give and giving a grossly inflated price either to attempt to rip-off an unsuspecting consumer or to intentionally overprice the job so as not to get it. No one who is a skilled craftsman should work for less that he is worth. I do not advocate a bidding war to get a job done for less than it is worth. That's the problem with competitive bidding. At the same time, a consumer certainly has the right to know if the price he has be quoted is within reason.

 

[Cookie]

Your skills may speak alot for you, but, someday, your attitude will get you into deep trouble. I am tired of assholes, in my life, professional or personal. TO give a person, a customer, an inflated price is just wrong. Period. No ifs and buts bout it. No reason for it. A REAL professional would not do it. No bones about it. I wonder if you know broke? I bet their are 50 people right now who would clap, when I say, your attitude sucks...

 

[Mike50]

Wow, that is exactly how I feel when I go around like a monkey giving out estimates and watch my competition get the job.


I don't cater to the price shoppers and never will. If you've heard of me and know my reputation, that will propel my success in business long before being some effin guppie in the trade being goody goody to every sympathetic out there.

There are a growing number of my wannabe customers that have felt the brunt of my attitude when it comes to wasting my time. I'd rather spend it with family and be broke than to let perfect strangers hustle me for my knowledge.

LOL. With all due respect Steve I'm betting your screen persona is a lot different from out in the field.
yeayeaa..I know you're Rugged but I'm betting you are a nicer guy than you want people to know. Take it as a compliment.

Live and Let Live Steve. What works for you just works. Fair enough?

BTW You give more Free advice than anyone I know. thanks!

I don't care how good anyone is--we all negotiate in a pinch.
Especially if the Wells been dry for a month or so.
You just do it a little different. You do it through discount coupons on your website.

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

I bet their are 50 people right now who would clap, when I say, your attitude sucks...

I will say, you are a hypocrite of sorts; you applaud my free knowledge to you along with my charity towards others when I feel it is warranted, but you are quick to judge my actions because I spin off those who take of me without second thought.

Just because you got a black eye doesn't mean you are going to give me one.

Rethink why you are so angered by my statements. It has a great deal to do with being a victim of circumstance with previous plumbers with that toilet of yours and "I'm a widow" saga. Your husband would want you to take the reigns in life and make the best of it. Not become destroyed by others who take of you.

It takes a spirited mind to overcome evil and deception.

And why do I and every other regular user of this forum know so much about your personal situation?

Because you told us, wanting something I don't know. This is the only forum I've ever visited where one individual spilled their guts in print regarding intimate details of their personal life. Figure out why you did it and figure out why you despise my right to protect myself from others who take of me.


These are my last words to you

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

LOL. With all due respect Steve I'm betting your screen persona is a lot different from out in the field.
yeayeaa..I know you're Rugged but I'm betting you are a nicer guy than you want people to know. Take it as a compliment.

Live and Let Live Steve. What works for you just works. Fair enough?

BTW You give more Free advice than anyone I know. thanks!

I don't care how good anyone is--we all negotiate in a pinch.
Especially if the Wells been dry for a month or so.
You just do it a little different. You do it through discount coupons on your website.

You know, I picked that name because I was at a loss of ideas that day, if Terry can do it, I wouldn't mind seeing it change into a series of numbers if that is possible. Maybe 90210? LOL! That's right in your area huh? lol

Yes. I can become viral in print sometimes when I'm being questioned in my work ethic. I worked for a preacher two days ago and his words verbatim as I walked out the door with two pepsi's and box of free doughnuts from him,

"I wish Midas had the same heart as you" < he got hammered by the muffler company that day and I cut him a break on replacing a sump pump check valve.

I also worked for Jimmy Flynt today, the brother of the King of ****, Larry Flynt. I don't why I just divulged that info but for some reason it was interesting to work for the guy, no magazines under the vanity I worked in either. I was mad, really mad

Mike, I just don't like observers from afar telling me how to run my business when I know from past history and present that people can and will take advantage of you if you let them.

Some on this site feel I should lay down to the cause. That will be the day I'll lay down my tools and give up this fine trade.

Thanks for the compliment. I show no harm to my customers or those I give freely of.

 

[Cookie]

Read some of the things you wrote and that should answer your questions. You are so afraid of being taken advantage of. That is being paranoid. You trust no one. You will find ways to put me down in your posts, ways, others won't get, but I will. These are my last words to you, but, I am sure they won't be yours.

 

[GRP]

WOW, Is this for real?

Wow, and I got slammed for what I said a few weeks back?

Hee Hee, this is really getting interesting.

Go Cookie Go!

You have my backing!

I'm going to let all of the BS that I got go out the window. I can't believe the Sh** now.

I hope you all have a good night!


GRP - the one and only (no one made me up).

 

[Cookie]

Well, GRP, how's your day? lol.
I am going to venture into replacing some weatherstripping around my door here. I hope I got the right kind.
Last time I didn't, and it was too thick, the door wouldn't close right.

Isn't life grand? lol.

 

[Mike50]

You know, I picked that name because I was at a loss of ideas that day, if Terry can do it, I wouldn't mind seeing it change into a series of numbers if that is possible. Maybe 90210? LOL! That's right in your area huh? lol

Lived-Worked in/near 90210 most of my life. Now I'm a happy desert rat with 2 pitbulls--go figure.

Yes. I can become viral in print sometimes when I'm being questioned in my work ethic.

I think Cookie was talking about attitudes.

I also worked for Jimmy Flynt today, the brother of the King of ****, Larry Flynt. I don't why I just divulged that info but for some reason it was interesting to work for the guy, no magazines under the vanity I worked in either. I was mad, really mad

I've done business with all of them including daughter Tanya. It's a 90210 thing.

Mike, I just don't like observers from afar telling me how to run my business when I know from past history and present that people can and will take advantage of you if you let them.

Right. OK.

Some on this site feel I should lay down to the cause. That will be the day I'll lay down my tools and give up this fine trade.

I can't even imagine anyone of any substance at all suggesting you give up your trade.

Thanks for the compliment. I show no harm to my customers or those I give freely of.

Sure.
Don't talk to Cookie like that Steve. Any women for that matter. Maybe I'm old fashioned.

You can debate your opinions-philosophies et al all day long.
When you get personal--it all goes downhill.

Mike

 

[Cookie]

Not to change this exciting subject line here, Mike, lol, but, I just bought a pit bull! She is 4 years old, she is a really nice color or colors I should say. She is brown, black, swirls, like, with a white neck underneath. The people didn't want her and I fell in love with her. Nice dog.

Thanks Mike.

 

[Mike50]

Not to change this exciting subject line here, Mike, lol, but, I just bought a pit bull! She is 4 years old, she is a really nice color or colors I should say. She is brown, black, swirls, like, with a white neck underneath. The people didn't want her and I fell in love with her. Nice dog.

Thanks Mike.

You are lucky. These are loyal gentle animals. You will get back exactly what you put into these dogs.

Mike

 

[Gary Slusser]

I will say, you are a hypocrite of sorts; you applaud my free knowledge to you along with my charity towards others when I feel it is warranted, but you are quick to judge my actions because I spin off those who take of me without second thought.

Just because you got a black eye doesn't mean you are going to give me one.

Rethink why you are so angered by my statements. It has a great deal to do with being a victim of circumstance with previous plumbers with that toilet of yours and "I'm a widow" saga. Your husband would want you to take the reigns in life and make the best of it. Not become destroyed by others who take of you.

It takes a spirited mind to overcome evil and deception.

And why do I and every other regular user of this forum know so much about your personal situation?

Because you told us, wanting something I don't know. This is the only forum I've ever visited where one individual spilled their guts in print regarding intimate details of their personal life. Figure out why you did it and figure out why you despise my right to protect myself from others who take of me.


These are my last words to you

I agree with Cookie. IMO, in addition to paranoid, you are nasty, mean and driven by revenge with a very negative attitude.

Again somone tries to help you by saying something they truely believe you need to hear and you get ugly and personal instead of discussing the subject.

When you give someone a free estimate, no one is taking you or anything from you; if you could/would think about it, it's called marketing and there is an expense to it.

Service plumbers like many other self employed business owners give free info and estimates/quotes all the time. You sound as if you think that you should make money on every action you take (unless you need an ego fix and decide to make a donation and pat yourself on the back while doing it), and that would be make beleive ideal but it's not business world reality.

There's only one thing that holds humans back, it's fear, usually of the unknown and if we will admit it, we all have things we don't know. Folks that fail rarely quit denying what they don't know.... And really, there's nothing to fear except fear itself.

Here again you had an oppotunity to acknowledge something you may not know and blew it. Based on your previous attacks on me and now the above comments to Cookie and beating up on her here, you need to find some humility, empathy and compassion because it isn't all about you Steve. Try looking at things from the others' point of view and you might naturally feel better about yourself instead of when you get the free dozen of donuts etc.. And the way I see it, you REALLY don't need more soda and donuts; free or otherwise.

My suggestion for changing your name goes to getting real; DUNBAR PLUMBER.

BTW, revenge ego stuff has a way of coming back to bite those that live by it.

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

It's pretty cool we're all playing Dr. Phil tonight and now I'm diagnosed as an E-thug. I don't mind anyone ganging up on me. It's A-OK and I can handle it. The subject lines above always stir the pot of discussion and is found on literally 100's of forums. I'd rather this not be one of them though.

Start back at the beginning of this thread and I threw one comment in and the bandwagon joined in the rant to disqualify the reasoning why I don't get worked over on estimates.

Terry chimed in and made key points similar to the rest in why these things happen. It's simple. Plumbers/contractors don't like getting hustled, if you don't like that, write a book and get rich.


Mike,

Here all that time I thought 90210 was a made up zip code, I didn't realize it actually was legit. I bet that town had an uproar of publicity when that show ran.


Last time this happened I was accused of being GRP. Gary, wrong again friend.


I had to run a service call for the past couple hours. Sump pump was running consistently every 15 seconds. Here's why:

That is a compression check valve that all these new plumbers are using in my area. It's fast easy and inexpensive. What is happening is these valves are JUNK and costing the customers new pumps because of those 3 holes in the flapper allowing the water to creep slowly back into the pit, overworking those switches. How they can even call this a check valve makes no sense.

Call me old fashioned but I like those green Zoeller check valves with the fernco connections and they are getting very hard to find at supply houses. They always want to sell me these white ones which I will not install.

Getting a great deal of sump pump calls before this huge rain coming in tomorrow night. I'm "supposed" to be studying for an exam to get a license dealing with radon installations/testing. I've heard that test is so hard it is unreal.



Terry if you could, could you change my user name to RK424

 

[Kordts]

I agree with Rugged, free estimates are for the birds. I love my job except for the homeowners. Most are happy with me and my work. I show the gals pictures of my boys, we are good friends. Then you get the chiselers, they take all the fun out of it. I have two part time office girls. They respond to estimate requests with, "he doesn't drive to make estimates. He will be in the area in 3 days, he can stop and take a look then, but won't fix it. If that's not soon enough, here's the number for 2 other plumbers." Most of them just end up making the appointment.

 

[Cass]

I will do estimates but I will bill them for the time and deduct it when / if they give me the job. When I tell them that most will just tell me they will get back to me and then I never hear from them again. If it is an estimate on say a water heater that their not sure if it needs replaced I will tell them, over the phone, any where between $100.00 and $1,500.00.