Alternative pump to Goulds HSC20?

[OttoW]

I'm looking to replace a Goulds HSC20 that has failed after just 6 years. I water my yard from a lake through 1" pipes to dozens of sprinkler heads with the furthest ones approximately 400' from the lakeside pump. My system's layout and yard topography require a pump capable of 200' head and 30 psi at the sprinkler heads. The Goulds had been able to satisfactorily water my yard but I don't want to spend around $2,000 on a replacement. Because I get so much rainfall every summer, I only use my irrigation system about 6-10 times a year - not worth it to me to spend $2,000 for such little use. Is anyone aware of another pump make/model that's less expensive than the Goulds HSC20 and is capable of meeting my head and psi requirements? I'm not interested in trying to repair the current Goulds. Thank you.

 

[WorthFlorida]

I know you don't want to repair it but there are few simple things that can be checked. Goulds is an excellent product. My take is changing to another brand will not guarantee a longer life span.

Does the motor hum and not turn?
*Start capacitor is bad, a simple fix. Very common with all motors since all manufactures buy essentially the same part.
*Drawing from a lake small debris gets picked up where the impeller just maybe stuck by a small stone. Hand turning the motor may free it up.
*A dead snake is wrapped around the commutator inside the motor housing.
* The motor is bad. Mexico manufacturers most small pump motors 1hp-3hp and pump manufacturers buy from the same source.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

Never liked the HSC pumps. I think they make the tolerances too tight and they get hot at low flow. Might try a GB series instead as they will lift from about 8' or so.
https://www.lockewell.com/index.php?main_page=shopping_cart&zenid=54d7930efb1019521876d2c9b624f5d0

 

[OttoW]

I know you don't want to repair it but there are few simple things that can be checked. Goulds is an excellent product. My take is changing to another brand will not guarantee a longer life span.

Does the motor hum and not turn?
*Start capacitor is bad, a simple fix. Very common with all motors since all manufactures buy essentially the same part.
*Drawing from a lake small debris gets picked up where the impeller just maybe stuck by a small stone. Hand turning the motor may free it up.
*A dead snake is wrapped around the commutator inside the motor housing.
* The motor is bad. Mexico manufacturers most small pump motors 1hp-3hp and pump manufacturers buy from the same source.

Thanks very much for responding. Here's what the pump was doing and what I've tried so far: I woke up last September to find that only half of my yard had been watered during the previous night (areas that would normally be wet were dry). The pump was naturally off since it was programmed to run at night. When I checked the pump, it would start and then shut off after about 3-10 seconds. It wouldn't immediately restart, but would after about 10 minutes. No circuit breaker ever tripped. On a couple of the startup attempts, I noticed a very and small brief wisp of smoke emitting from the motor housing and the pump was louder than normal (bearings?). I physically inspected the impeller (no blockage and it moved freely). Wiring looked fine. So, this start/stop continued without improvement, I replaced the V-switch, run capacitor, and start capacitor (I obviously didn't know what the problem was. I thought it was motor-related so I replaced some of the major parts used in starting the motor). With no change to the condition/usability of the pump, I went ahead and winterized it. So, with a new season I'm so disappointed in this Goulds that I'm thinking of trying something else. I appreciate your suggestions. I've tried them other than the commutator thought because I haven't inspected far into the motor. Any other ideas on what the problem is? Thanks.

 

[OttoW]

Never liked the HSC pumps. I think they make the tolerances too tight and they get hot at low flow. Might try a GB series instead as they will lift from about 8' or so.
https://www.lockewell.com/index.php?main_page=shopping_cart&zenid=54d7930efb1019521876d2c9b624f5d0

Thanks for the suggestion. Can you take a look at my comments to WorthFlorida below where I describe what the HSC20 was doing last fall. Any ideas on what the problem could be are appreciated.

 

[Valveman]

I would guess the smoke came from the start capacitor. Running 3-10 seconds and then not coming on for a few minutes means it is tripping the built in overload in the motor. They automatically reset after they cool down. I would try running the motor by itself, with no impellers attached. If the motor runs fine and about about half of full load amps, then the pump is bound up for some reason. The close tolerances I mentioned in the HSC pump I think comes from extra tight rubber bushings. These rubber bushings can swell and grab the impeller. Have seen it in other models of pumps, just assuming it is the same in the HSC, but I have never cracked one of those open.

 

[OttoW]

Thank you for your thoughts. I'll consider the removal of the impeller and then see how it runs. To do that I'll have to carry the pump down to the lakeside and wire it to the 230v supply (it's sitting on the workshop bench right now since I winterized it last year). But not a big deal. I suppose, as you suggest, that the motor can overheat within seconds if something like the impeller is binding the pump. Thanks again.

 

[Fitter30]

With a puff of smoke that came from the motor might want to pull the back of motor inspect the windings.
Pump suction with relationship to pipe level in the water and is the water above or below water level. Pump curve shows NPSH-R net positive suction pressure required.

HSC20 - Pump, Multi-Stage Centrifugal, 2 HP, 230VAC, 1 Phase | Irrigation Outlet USA

HSC20 - Pump, Multi-Stage Centrifugal, 2 HP, 230VAC, 1 Phase shipped to your doorstep within the continental US. Get great products at great prices with Irrigation Outlet. | USA

www.irrigationoutlet.com

 

[OttoW]

With a puff of smoke that came from the motor might want to pull the back of motor inspect the windings.
Pump suction with relationship to pipe level in the water and is the water above or below water level. Pump curve shows NPSH-R net positive suction pressure required.

HSC20 - Pump, Multi-Stage Centrifugal, 2 HP, 230VAC, 1 Phase | Irrigation Outlet USA

HSC20 - Pump, Multi-Stage Centrifugal, 2 HP, 230VAC, 1 Phase shipped to your doorstep within the continental US. Get great products at great prices with Irrigation Outlet. | USA

www.irrigationoutlet.com

Thank you for your suggestion to inspect the windings. As for water level, the pump is drawing from about a 3' rise. It's the same level that this pump (Goulds HSC20) had been successfully drawing from for the past 6 years. And this pump replaced a HSC20 that had been located at the same spot along a lake for at least 12 years before it went bad. Any idea what could cause a new pump that didn't experience any trauma (cracked, power surge, dropped, overheated) to suddenly show the symptoms I described above after only 6 years? Thanks.

 

[Fitter30]

Gould tech could tell you more but they want 2.6' or more of pump being lower the water not above. What happens pump has cavitation instead of pumping a solid water stream air bubbles are mixed in impellers which you pump has 3 can set up a vibration and raise the water temperature.

ITT Goulds Pumps is a leading manufacturer of pumps for a wide range of industrial markets — including chemical, mining, oil & gas, power generation, pulp and paper, and general industry. | Goulds Pumps

ITT Goulds Pumps is a leading manufacturer of pumps for a wide range of industrial markets — including chemical, mining, oil & gas, power generation, pulp and paper, and general industry. Its global reputation for innovation and quality spans more than 160 years.

www.gouldspumps.com

 

[OttoW]

Thank you for your thoughts. I'll consider the removal of the impeller and then see how it runs. To do that I'll have to carry the pump down to the lakeside and wire it to the 230v supply (it's sitting on the workshop bench right now since I winterized it last year). But not a big deal. I suppose, as you suggest, that the motor can overheat within seconds if something like the impeller is binding the pump. Thanks again.

I haven't done anything with the pump yet since I last communicated with you, but was hoping to get your thoughts on a couple of things:
1) Because I had replaced the v switch and the run and start capacitors last fall, and still had problems (including the occasional wisp of smoke), I'm thinking of doing a thorough inspection of the AO Smith motor's bearings. Is access to and removal/inspection of a motor bearing difficult for a DIYer? How about replacement of a motor bearing for a DIYer?
2). As an alternative to trying to fix the existing HSC20, I've identified the Gould's GT10 as a pump which appears to have the specs and capability to water my yard. But to do so, I think that I would need to create a few more stations. Right now, I have 15 zones spread over 7 stations. I had to double up some zones (about 6-9 sprinkler heads each) to a single station to prevent the HSC20 from cycling. So, do you think if I singled up one zone to one station, the GT10 would be able to give me enough water pressure for everything. Obviously, the zones closer to the pump would be ok. But my furthest zones are about 400' from the pump, at 15' elevation, using 2" pipes. Those two furthest zones are currently doubled up (far zone and a zone nearer to the pump) to two different stations. I'm wondering whether singling up these two far stations and thereby have only one zone drawing from the GT10 at a time would work. Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Fitter30]

To size a pump need gpm flow per zone and what zones do you want to double up. Next highest water level & suction of pump level to top of well. All pipe sizes, length of pipe and number of fittings each pipe. Take a pump apart will also need a shaft seal and possibly a brass sleeve. A pump shop or a motor shop might be a better way to go. Before I'd put money into that pump i talk with gould or a pump shop. Your pump isn't made for having the pump above the water level.

 

[Bannerman]

Obtain a jet pump that is capable of higher pressure and flow rate. Pairing that with Valveman's Cycle Stop Valve PK1A Pside-Kick kit, will allow water to be utilized at any flow rate exceeding 1 GPM, without cycling, and with no irrigation system modifications being necessary.

CSV Pside-Kick kit

 

[OttoW]

To size a pump need gpm flow per zone and what zones do you want to double up. Next highest water level & suction of pump level to top of well. All pipe sizes, length of pipe and number of fittings each pipe. Take a pump apart will also need a shaft seal and possibly a brass sleeve. A pump shop or a motor shop might be a better way to go. Before I'd put money into that pump i talk with gould or a pump shop. Your pump isn't made for having the pump above the water level.

Thanks for all the help. It looks like these irrigation systems are more complicated than I want them to be.

IN SHORT: How can I choose a replacement for a failed (Goulds HSC20) irrigation pump? My system has had two HSC20 pumps over the past 18 years. The first one lasted over 12 years and then failed. The second one was installed 7 years ago and lasted 6 (through last summer) and then developed the problems I've been describing in this thread. So, with new HSC20's retailing for close to $2,000, I'm hoping to be able to start using a different make/model of pump for my system.

I bought this house with an existing sprinkler irrigation system, so I do not have all of its layout and design details.

Are these my two choices?

A. Easy method. Failed pump had adequate nozzle coverage, and pump did not cycle on/off, so I can replace the failed Goulds pump with the exact same model.

B. Impossible method. With huge effort, I can find all the necessary information of the multi-acre irrigation system to then determine the pump requirements, and then shop around: Pipe material, diameter, and length (layout is buried underground, so pipe routes are hidden) throughout the entire system; Flow rate, operating pressure, and friction loss for all 70 nozzles. And also document how the nozzles are clustered into control zones; Friction loss for every valve (check, main, qty 18 PGV) in the system; Elevation change between lake (my water source), pump, and every nozzle. I can simplify this method by making assumptions here and there (pipe material, pipe layout/length/diameter, specific nozzle configuration, etc.) but this could lead to selecting either an undersized or oversized pump — both of these situations are bad.

Method B might let me find a pump cheaper than the HSC20, if I am willing to do the work. (Sounds impossible to learn all the specifics of pipe routing, changes in diameters, t-fittings, etc without doing a lot of digging.)

What would a professional irrigation contractor do if a homeowner in my situation asked him to recommend and install a new pump?

Thank you.

 

[Fitter30]

Call a couple of irrigation pump companies on the web tell what u have.