After years of use it now clogs almost every time

[projecttoday]

These days the Universal-Rundle 1.6 gpf toilet in my apartment clogs almost every flush on solid waste. I don't know exactly how old it is but it was here when I moved in 14 years ago. The maintenance guy for the apartment complex said the toilet is okay when he was here to fix the flapper. (It flushes liquids just fine.) Will replacing the toilet solve the clog problem? I was thinking of an American Standard Champion 4 because they claim it has the best flush and the widest trap available and the price is reasonable. Clog-resistance is priority followed by price. The bathroom is small. I own the apartment. Please advise.

 

[JRC3]

I'm not a plumber but I've installed many Champions through the years without a single complaint. Instead, the best advice might be to advise tenants/users to hold down the handle on the existing toilets for solids. Hold it down long enough til the solids clear the bowl and the water slows from the tank, 4 seconds maybe. This has always been a topic and it is amazing how many people who do not know do this simple daily function.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[projecttoday]

I've tried that and it doesn't work. I own the apartment, not the building.

 

[Smooky]

Is this something that just gradually started happening or has it been this way the whole time?

 

[Reach4]

Will replacing the toilet solve the clog problem?

Most probably.

Flushing technology has improved a lot.

 

[projecttoday]

The clogs are recent. It used to work much better.

I see on one of the threads here somebody was able to take a toilet outside and get some gunk out of it and it worked much better. But I would be fine with doing $300 (or less) toilet plus install to get it to work great. But could the problem be in the plumbing instead?

 

[Reach4]

But could the problem be in the plumbing instead?

A problem with the plumbing would probably have a problem with liquid flushes also.

There is a good chance that removal and cleaning could get things back to working as well as before. But if you are going to do that, an upgrade to a more modern design with a smooth trapway may well be worthwhile.

Terry sells toilets in the Seattle area:
http://terrylove.biz/6-toilets?orderby=price&orderway=asc

 

[projecttoday]

A problem with the plumbing would probably have a problem with liquid flushes also.

Good to hear.

I'm in the east.

So it looks like a new one is in order then, most likelty the AS Champion 4. There is one hitch, however. Apparently, the complex where I live has high water pressure. They have to remove the mechanism inside and replace it with specially-made works. They say this has to be done. They usually use Mansfield, I think. Can I still do AS Champ 4? Will it affect the performance?

 

[Jadnashua]

A problem with the plumbing would probably have a problem with liquid flushes also.

Not necessarily so! In fact, it can be fairly common to flush liquids fine, but have problems with solids IF there is some obstruction in the trapway. All it takes is something like a long bobby pin, a pen, toothbrush, comb, toy, etc. that can easily let liquids pass by, but slows things down once you add paper and solids.

IF you have hard water and the siphon jet is partially clogged, or the internal channels including the rim outlets are restricted by mineral deposits, that can affect the operation of the toilet, too. Most 1.6g toilets use a siphon jet since a wash down one is really tough to make work well with so little water or go fast enough through the siphon jet to get the solids moving well enough to flush out.

 

[projecttoday]

But is any of that likely to be in the plumbing?

 

[Terry]

If you're going home center brands, then you might look at he American Standard Cadet series instead. I'm not a fan of the Champion.
Or Kohler has their Wellworth that works well.
As far as what you have now, most likely someone dropped something in the bowl and it's now stick in the trapway somewhere.
Even something like Q-Tips is enough to slow the siphon and cause paper and waste to catch. We use an 1-5/8" closet auger to try to push those things out, sometimes pulling the bowl and working from the bottom side. It's a good time to replace for a better toilet though.
At the low end we start with the TOTO Entrada which is a work horse. But since you're looking home center, I would look at the Cadet or the Wellworth.

This toilet is a workhorse.

 

[projecttoday]

I'm not a fan of the Champion.

Why not?

 

[Terry]

Why not?

The flush valve leaves a lot of water in the tank that never leaves. They jack it up so they can use a larger flapper for the standard 3" outlet.

They are big and bulky.

Special tool to tighten the bolts on the tank.
I do remove a bunch of them.
I have three of the Champion 4 one-piece toilets in the back of the van headed for the dump. I replaced them with TOTO Ultramax II one-piece.
Another customer of mine that had TOTO before but thought they would try the Champion. A few years and he went back to TOTO.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....nd-comments-rated-1-by-consumer-reports.4833/

Cadet Pro

 

[projecttoday]

Thanks for posting that link. Well I spent some time looking at that thread and some others. Online has the Caroma Sydney Smart II for $319 with free shipping. The AS Cadet 3 goes for less than half that at HD. I wonder if the Caroma is worth the extra money.

 

[Terry]

http://terrylove.biz/home/119-caroma-sydney-smart-305-elongated.html Really? I sell it for $279.99
The Cadet would be fine. I do recommend the Caroma if the homeowner has a problem with plugging toilets. Most of the time, it's a medical issue. For the 99%, the TOTO, A/S, the Kohler will do the job.

 

[projecttoday]

I just realized the dual flush would pay for itself in water bills. But I doubt that it would be compatible with anything they have here. As I mentioned earlier, they switch out the works.

 

[Reach4]

I just realized the dual flush would pay for itself in water bills. But I doubt that it would be compatible with anything they have here. As I mentioned earlier, they switch out the works.

How expensive is your water? Is your town one that has a special case that makes water expensive? West Virginia is far from any deserts.

A toilet has a fill valve that brings water in, and it has a flush valve that lets water out. I think the dual flush toilet has a different flush valve, but the fill valve should be replaceable with other fill valves.

It would be interesting to know what they put as a replacement fill valve.

 

[projecttoday]

No, the water is not especially expensive but the monthly maintenance has increased well over 200% in the last 14 years and water is a major component of the maintenance. This is a cooperative apartment complex with 400 apartments. A lower water bill would be a way of offsetting the increase. If all the apartments switched to a dual-flush toilet I'm sure we could bring the maintenance down. And I've decided I want the Caroma.

You think the part they're switching out is the fill valve? I'll try to get more information from them on Monday when they're back at work.

 

[Reach4]

No, the water is not especially expensive but the monthly maintenance has increased well over 200% in the last 14 years and water is a major component of the maintenance. This is a cooperative apartment complex with 400 apartments. A lower water bill would be a way of offsetting the increase. If all the apartments switched to a dual-flush toilet I'm sure we could bring the maintenance down. And I've decided I want the Caroma.

You think the part they're switching out is the fill valve? I'll try to get more information from them on Monday when they're back at work.

The fill valve would be the part that faces the water pressure. It may be they just put a regulator before the existing fill valve. Another possibility is they are using a valve that automatically releases water when the pressure gets high. This may an alternative to a thermal expansion tank for each unit. That seems more probable. http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=7237 is discontinued, but they may have stocked up, or there may be a similar valve available.

I suggest that you get a water pressure gauge that has a garden hose thread to see what the water pressure is. This is under $20 and sometimes less than $10. A "lazy" or "tattletale" hand can be useful, although that can be affected by vibration or sudden pressure rise. You can hook that gauge to a hose bib, a laundry supply, laundry sink, or even the water heater drain. Normally water pressure should stay at or below 80 PSI.

 

[projecttoday]

You can hook that gauge to a hose bib, a laundry supply, laundry sink, or even the water heater drain.

I'm in an apartment. A hose bib is a spigot on the side of a house? The only 1 of those I have is the water heater. I can ask them what they're doing on Monday.