Adding outlets to a bedroom

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Nelsonba

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Hello. I’d like to add a couple more outlets to a bedroom. The existing outlets are wired with old BX cable from the 1930s and test ok for ground. The outlets were grounded to the metal boxes.


1) Am I correct that the bx cable armor should not have been used as a ground with this type of cable? My understanding is that armored cable needs to have a bonding strip in it.

2) Assuming #1 is correct, what’s the correct way to fix this? I’d like to avoid going back to 2-prong outlets.


Thanks
 

Jadnashua

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Unless you want to rewire the whole house...the only safe way to deal with this is to install a GFCI in the circuit...the least expensive way is to find the first receptacle in the daisy-chain, and replace it with a GFCI receptacle (or you can replace the circuit breaker with a GFCI version). You may also be required to incorporate AFCI.

Code allows older installations to install 3-wire, grounded receptacles even when there's no ground, if the line is:
- protected by a GFCI AND
- you put a sticker on each receptacle in the line that reads something like this: "GFCI protected, no equipment ground". There's usually a bunch of appropriate stickers in the box with a GFCI, at least one that has a load set of leads out of it needed for daisy-chaining.

A few things actually require a system ground, and may not work properly, but more things with a 3-prong plug will then work just fine. A true grounded receptacle is better, but it's much safer than an old BX where the armor has become corroded, and the ground is no longer decent. FWIW, I recently redid my entire Mother's house with that method. The old receptacles spring tension was getting really weak after 50-years of use, so new receptacles was a good thing, and GFCI makes it better.
 

Nelsonba

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Unless you want to rewire the whole house...the only safe way to deal with this is to install a GFCI in the circuit...the least expensive way is to find the first receptacle in the daisy-chain, and replace it with a GFCI receptacle (or you can replace the circuit breaker with a GFCI version). You may also be required to incorporate AFCI.

Code allows older installations to install 3-wire, grounded receptacles even when there's no ground, if the line is:
- protected by a GFCI AND
- you put a sticker on each receptacle in the line that reads something like this: "GFCI protected, no equipment ground". There's usually a bunch of appropriate stickers in the box with a GFCI, at least one that has a load set of leads out of it needed for daisy-chaining.

A few things actually require a system ground, and may not work properly, but more things with a 3-prong plug will then work just fine. A true grounded receptacle is better, but it's much safer than an old BX where the armor has become corroded, and the ground is no longer decent. FWIW, I recently redid my entire Mother's house with that method. The old receptacles spring tension was getting really weak after 50-years of use, so new receptacles was a good thing, and GFCI makes it better.

Thought so. A few more questions then.


1) Best way to find the first outlet? Identify everything on the circuit and start unhooking stuff until only one is left and still on?

2) What if the first thing is a light switch?

3) Should I unhook any existing ground wires on the circuit, or do I want to keep them connected to the boxes?
 

Jadnashua

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1. Sometimes, it's easiest to find the 'last' one and work back. Usually, but not always, they try to minimize the wiring needed, and work their way around the room. The 'last' one would only have one cable coming in. All of the others would have two...an input and an output. Once you find the first one, you have to determine which cable is the input, and which one is the feed through...the GFCI needs to know for it to work properly.

2. It still would likely end up going to outlets. If your light switch only has one cable, it's just a switch leg...if your switch controls an outlet, you should consider changing the breaker to a GFCI one instead of using a GFCI receptacle.

3. You can keep the ground wires, but they may not help if there isn't a bonding ground in the BX...it won't hurt, though.
 

Nelsonba

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1. Sometimes, it's easiest to find the 'last' one and work back. Usually, but not always, they try to minimize the wiring needed, and work their way around the room. The 'last' one would only have one cable coming in. All of the others would have two...an input and an output. Once you find the first one, you have to determine which cable is the input, and which one is the feed through...the GFCI needs to know for it to work properly.

2. It still would likely end up going to outlets. If your light switch only has one cable, it's just a switch leg...if your switch controls an outlet, you should consider changing the breaker to a GFCI one instead of using a GFCI receptacle.

3. You can keep the ground wires, but they may not help if there isn't a bonding ground in the BX...it won't hurt, though.

OK. Looks like the circuit I'm dealing with runs to the entire 2nd floor as well as two bedrooms on the main floor. I'm thinking it's probably easier to just replace the breaker. I've done a little bit of work with that old wiring and I'd rather leave it undisturbed if possible. Assuming it's compatible with my panel, is something like this what I would want? I know the existing breaker is 15 amp and isn't AFCI required now for bedrooms as well?

https://www.amazon.com/Siemens-Q115...7025&sr=1-4&keywords=15+amp+afci+gfci+breaker
 

Jadnashua

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If your panel can safely use that breaker, yes, that would then allow you to change the receptacles to 3-prong devices IF you label them as not having a ground and GFCI protected. Note, if there are any problems in your wiring, the new breaker may trip immediately. If it comes on and stays on, you should be good. If not, you'll need to find the problem. Often, there's a label on the panel that lists what breakers will work in it. IF not, you might need to call the manufacturer to verify what is needed. Some people don't use much in their bedrooms, but having multiple ones on the same breaker would be unusual today.
 
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