ABS closet flange issue

[Sk_rva]

I had a leaky toilet in bathroom I gutted to remodel. Cut old broken ABS flange off 90 degree hub that it was directly connected to. Drain pipe is 3”.
The flange was not on top of the finished tile like it should be. After cutting, the hub now sits 3/8 below subfloor. But since it was welded connection I used a special boring tool to get rid of the remainder of the broken flange, leaving a 3.5” opening.
My non-plumber self did not realize this is not common because it is a hub end. After I add finished tile floor it will leave hub end at 1 and 3/8” below finished floor. I cannot find an ABS extended flange meant to go into a hub.
My question is can I use a very small piece of 3” ABS pipe to put into the hub then put regular 3” flange over the small pipe stub without a problem? The pipe piece would be 2 and 5/8” (1.25 in the hub and 1.375 sticking out to accommodate new flange).
Or I could add the pipe stub and use a flange that goes inside 3” pipe but it narrows the hole quite a bit.

Any advice appreciated.

 

[Breplum]

Maybe Sioux Chief has what you need: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Sioux-C...Hit5c6jFUAG73-kbIl-ZxlHSs2kvaC4hoC7IsQAvD_BwE

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

My question is can I use a very small piece of 3” abs pipe to put into the hub then put regular 3” flange over the small pipe stub without a problem?

I would think that in Virginia, PVC would be more common than ABS. ABS pipe and fittings are usually black, and PVC white. That long tail flange that breplumb suggested is also available in PVC. However it will not fit into a hub. It is "inside". You are looking for " 3 inch spigot" I think.

If you were looking for PVC, Canplas 193617SS might do it. I don't find something similar in ABS. Green transition cement might be allowed for you to glue PVC into ABS. I don't know the rules for VA.

 

[Sk_rva]

Maybe Sioux Chief has what you need: https://www.supplyhouse.com/Sioux-C...Hit5c6jFUAG73-kbIl-ZxlHSs2kvaC4hoC7IsQAvD_BwE

I need that exact item but with a 3.5” neck to go into a hub. The one above goes over a 3” or inside a 4”.

 

[Sk_rva]

I would think that in Virginia, PVC would be more common than ABS. ABS pipe and fittings are usually black, and PVC white. That long tail flange that breplumb suggested is also available in PVC. However it will not fit into a hub. It is "inside". You are looking for " 3 inch spigot" I think.

If you were looking for PVC, Canplas 193617SS might do it. I don't find something similar in ABS. Green transition cement might be allowed for you to glue PVC into ABS. I don't know the rules for VA.

Thanks, yeah its frustrating, I would have thought this would be a fairly common issue and therefore parts would be readily available. In VA, all the new stuff and changes are PVC, but 80s and 90s they used ABS.

what do you think about my idea to use a small pipe stub into the hub and then a normal abs flange over that?

 

[wwhitney]

The problem with that idea is that on most of them, the hub starts 1" below the finish floor. So you'd only have 3/8" of engagement to the pipe stub, since the existing hub end is 1-3/8" below the finish floor.

Is opening up the subfloor and changing the closet bend an option?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

what do you think about my idea to use a small pipe stub into the hub and then a normal abs flange over that?

My question is can I use a very small piece of 3” ABS pipe to put into the hub then put regular 3” flange over the small pipe stub without a problem? The pipe piece would be 2 and 5/8” (1.25 in the hub and 1.375 sticking out to accommodate new flange).

How high does that make the top of the stub with respect to the level of the finished floor? If even, 1.375 does not sound like enough for an outside flange, but I am not sure.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.supplyhouse.com/product_files/SiouxChief-886-ATMS-Product-Overview.pdf only shows a 1.5 inch tail, but the picture seems to show that tail starting a little lower than the floor surface.

That Canplas 193617SS with green transition cement might be worth considering... or the inside long tail discussed above would be the other choice.

If we could go back in time, you could probably have used a repair ring over the closet flange that you cut out.

 

[wwhitney]

Looks like this may work:

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Nibco-I355500-4-x-3-SPG-x-SPG-ABS-Adjustable-Closet-Flange-58512A

If you look at Nibco's web site, their 2D sales drawing shows it as 2-3/4" overall height, 5/16" flange thickness. So the bottom of the spigot end would sit 2-7/16" below the finish floor. If the top of the hub is 1-3/8" below the finish floor, then gives you 1-1/16" of spigot engagement--less than the standard 1-1/2", but probably sufficient.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

Looks like this may work:

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Nibco-I355500-4-x-3-SPG-x-SPG-ABS-Adjustable-Closet-Flange-58512A

If you look at Nibco's web site, their 2D sales drawing shows it as 2-3/4" overall height, 5/16" flange thickness. So the bottom of the spigot end would sit 2-7/16" below the finish floor. If the top of the hub is 1-3/8" below the finish floor, then gives you 1-1/16" of spigot engagement--less than the standard 1-1/2", but probably sufficient.

Cheers, Wayne

4x3 spigot x spigot -- what could that mean? It will fit into either a 4 inch hub or a 3 inch hub? I find that inconceivable.

Maybe it is a 4 inch spigot flange about 3 inch tall. If it were a 3 inch spigot that is 4 inch tall, that would be great for this application.

What would you think about transition cement?

 

[wwhitney]

I think the spigot x spigot is just an entry typo. It's a 3" spigot flange, with the opening widening to 4" at the top.

I think I'd be more comfortable with 1" of ABS/ABS engagement than 1-1/2" of ABS/PVC engagement, but that's perhaps solely due to non-familiarity.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Sk_rva]

The problem with that idea is that on most of them, the hub starts 1" below the finish floor. So you'd only have 3/8" of engagement to the pipe stub, since the existing hub end is 1-3/8" below the finish floor.

Is opening up the subfloor and changing the closet bend an option?

Cheers, Wayne

Yeah ur right dang it. I just realized that while at lowes buying the 3” pipe. I had already bought a longneck flange (9” long neck!) off ebay that fits inside 3” pipe, not realizing it doesnt work with a hub. So now my plan is to put a small piece of pipe, roughly 2.375”, into the hub so that it is nearly flush with new finished floor, then use the longneck flange and cut it to size to fit inside the 3” pipe section.

 

[Sk_rva]

4x3 spigot x spigot -- what could that mean? It will fit into either a 4 inch hub or a 3 inch hub? I find that inconceivable.

Maybe it is a 4 inch spigot flange about 3 inch tall. If it were a 3 inch spigot that is 4 inch tall, that would be great for this application.

What would you think about transition cement?

Actually it means it fits over a 3” pipe, or inside a 4” pipe. But My hub is inbetween those sizes since it takes 3” pipe. Since I cant find a longneck hub flange ive had to improvise. Im using a small pipe stub and a long neck spigot type flange that goes inside 3” pipe. The drawback seems to be that it narrows the opening to 2.5”. Some people have said it doesnt matter since toilets have 2.375” openings anyway, but Im not sure.

 

[Reach4]

Yeah ur right dang it. I just realized that while at lowes buying the 3” pipe. I had already bought a longneck flange (9” long neck!) off ebay that fits inside 3” pipe, not realizing it doesnt work with a hub. So now my plan is to put a small piece of pipe, roughly 2.375”, into the hub so that it is nearly flush with new finished floor, then use the longneck flange and cut it to size to fit inside the 3” pipe section.

They say spigot in a toilet flange description, that normally means that it fits into a hub.

An inside fit flange should be fine. What you won't be able to do is to "cheat" the placement to the side so much as if it were an outside or spigot flange. Center the toilet, and things should pass nicely.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Hard to explain and might be a challenge to execute but here is a secret fix.
Step 1 Cut existing closet flange off leaving just the hub still glued on . it will be smooth on the out side below your cut. step 2 glue a piece of 4 inch pipe over the 3 inch hub. Using the existing hub as a coupling with the pipe. Step 3 install closet ring 4 inch or 3 your choice.
This isnt the greatest fix but works pretty darn good. verify good fit ID 4inch pipe to the hub. go heavy on the glue.
Whole lot of other talk special fittings I cant follow it all but Id rather do this than glue a fitting 3/8 inch deep. Or just cut out the old. I've had to do this on concrete floors with tile where not a lot of options existed no complaints or call backs

 

[WorthFlorida]

Is this is what you need? This would be glued inside the hub for a 3" fitting.
https://www.plumbingsupply.com/toiletflanges.html#unique

 

[Sk_rva]

Hard to explain and might be a challenge to execute but here is a secret fix.
Step 1 Cut existing closet flange off leaveing just the hub still glued on . it will be smooth on the out side below your cut. step 2 glue a piece of 4 inch pipe over the 3 inch hub. Using the existing hub as a coupling with the pipe. Step 3 install closet ring 4 inch or 3 your choice.
This isnt the greatest fix but works pretty darn good. verify good fit ID 4inch pipe to the hub. go heavy on the glue.
Whole lot of other talk special fittings I cant follow it all but Id rather do this than glue a fitting 3/8 inch deep. Or just cut out the old. Ive had to do this on concrete floors with tile where not a lot of options existed no complaints or call backs

Thats an interesting idea. I think in my case the hub is too close to floor. But I already glued in a 2.5” stub into the hub. It has roughly 1.25” sticking out. I am thinking I can get a flange to fit over approximately 3/4”. Do you happen to know if 3/4” is generally enough for ABS to seal?

 

[Jeff H Young]

Thats an interesting idea. I think in my case the hub is too close to floor. But I already glued in a 2.5” stub into the hub. It has roughly 1.25” sticking out. I am thinking I can get a flange to fit over approximately 3/4”. Do you happen to know if 3/4” is generally enough for ABS to seal?

It will seal but will it crack? if its expansion contraction etc. Youve already glued it up, 3/4 is probebly ok but not so desireable. as long as there isnt a lot of stress should be ok.
My method would work even with hub to top of floor . a 4 inch pipe would have gone over that and then a 4 inch closet flange (4 1/2" ID) for future or others with similar problem. there is a slight reduction in size an inch or so below ring but harmless ,or can be dealt with if a person didnt like it

 

[Sk_rva]

I just tried new one and it wont work either. Looks like Im back to plan B, inserting spigot flange inside 3” pipe. It narrows it to 2.75” the walls of the flange are only an eighth inch each but itll be inserted 2.5” into 3” pipe. Itll sit fluch on finished floor I just worry about the narrower pipe and the spigot type top on the thing regarding flow. I wish I had gotten your idea before I glued it.