2017 toilet updates?

[speedlever]

Doing a bit of research to replace the existing, ancient Gerber toilets in our house (3 of them), I had initially planned to go to Home Depot and get some Glacier Bay replacement toilets. But I see that GB doesn't get much love here.

Honestly, the GB toilets that I've seen/used are so far superior to the Gerbers in our house that GB would be a huge improvement! But anyway, doing my research led me to this site which seems to have a wealth of information.

I see my local HD can get Toto Entrada and some Drake toilets, but I don't think they have the Drake II models which are out of stock online and not sold in stores.

I considered the AS VorMax ($259), but reading a bit here put me off a bit. The last info on the VorMax that I read was a couple of years old, so I'm curious if the VM has been updated or if it's still the same design with dual flapper valves?

Without breaking the bank, would the Entrada series be a value choice for ~$200 each (plus seat). I don't know the difference between the Entrada and the Drake. I know the Drake II has the double cyclone system and is a 1.28 gpf flusher.

I have the standard 12 inch rough-in and the supply line is about 5.5 inches offset from the center of the toilet. I am not interested in skirted designs.

I think I'd like the universal (ADA compliant) seat height too. And my wife will have to decide on round vs elongated bowls.

The HD site shows the round Entrada for ~$188 (CST243E) and the Drake (CST743E for $195.) The elongated Entrada is about $210 (CST244E) but I don't think any of these are ADA compliant.

Oh wait, I just found a CST744EGN for $329. But I'm not sure the difference. I'm still a bit lost on Toto nomenclature. And a CST744ERG for $339. A CST744S for $223. Very confusing, not being familiar with how Toto names their products.

What should I be looking for in a Toto product?

 

[Jadnashua]

First, most plumbing supply stores either carry or can get Toto toilets even if they don't list it as a brand they carry. There's generally a big difference between list price and the selling price, so you have to call around, so you're not 'stuck' with HD.

Toto offers two different glazes, a standard, common one that has worked for decades, and a newer, super smooth one that they changed the name of (used to be called SanaGlos). While either will work, in my opinion, those with SanaGlos are easier to clean and they don't need cleaning as often. I have two with SanaGlos, and my mother has two without...mine don't need cleaning as often.

There isn't much of any difference between Toto's comfort height and ADA. With an ADA compatible toilet, it not only needs the requisite height, but also needs to have the flush lever on the outside of the toilet so that it can be accessed (an ADA toilet also needs to be elongated and use a seat with a gap at the front). So, on some toilets, they make separate tanks with the option of the flush lever on both the L or R. Most toilets come with it on the right as you're sitting there, so while they may work in some room layouts as ADA compliant, they won't in others, so they are not listed as ADA.

The code keys has been posted here before...I don't try to remember it, so can't help you decipher it. I have not used an Entrada, so only know what I've heard...it seems to be a decent toilet.

 

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[speedlever]

Thanks for your perspective. I'll search for those codes. That distinction between comfort height and ADA is also appreciated.

Edit: added codes as posted by Terry over 7 years ago!
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/different-models-of-toto-drake.32754/#post-231218
S = G-Max Flush, 1.6 gallons
E = Ecoflush, 1.28 gallons Watersense
F = 16-1/8" high bowl
L = 16-1/2" high bowl
C = Double Cyclone Rinse
D = insulated tank
B = bolt down tank lid, helpful in a commerican situation
R = Right hand lever
G = CEFIONTECT
Most Drakes are standard height, 14-5/8"
********************************************************
Missing codes :
N (I think this refers to a tank design option)
U

 

[speedlever]

Doing a bit more research, it appears the Entrada series have both the comfort height and use the same flushing system as the original Drake (Drake I).

Perusing the Totousa site, my short and quick analysis shows:

Entrada series:
CST243 for round bowl with only comfort height/ADA compliant available (-F)
CST244 for elongated bowl only -F ADA

Drake I series (original):
-CST743 (round bowl) does not come in comfort height/ADA. Std height only.
-CST744 (elongated bowl) only comes in L series ADA

Drake II series:
-CST453 only comes in ADA (-F)
-CST454 only comes in ADA (-F)

-F = 16 1/8 in high bowl
-L = 16 1/2 in high bowl

The main difference between Drake I and Entrada appears to be style (and cost).

Drake II offers the Tornado flushing system, CeFiONtect, and higher costs over the Drake I.

For the most part, I think the above summary is accurate.

Any corrections to the above? Please advise.

 

[Jadnashua]

From my experience, if you choose a Toto toilet that you like the look of, it will perform. So, it comes down more to style and features rather than overall performance. The newest system on the Drake II and others which incorporates the super smooth glaze tends to clean the bowl better if you tend to get 'skid marks', but they all evacuate the bowl of waste very well. Unless you're in the small percentage of the population with a health or diet problem, and generate very long, hard stools, the Totos just work. You can spend lots of money on one, for example, they have one that will raise the lid when you walk up, or the seat if you turn around, flush and run an air vent and deodorize, then wash your butt when finished, lower the lid when you finish and walk away. You do pay more for higher style, and if black is your thing, that option alone is quite expensive (any little glazing defect will show grey or white though to the porcelain, so it has to be perfect).

FWIW, a tank-type verses an all-in-one tends to have very slightly better flush because of the taller tank (the water has to fall further), but it's hard to tell without lab measurements. An all-in-one is more expensive because the casting and assembly at the factory is more complex. The ease of cleaning because there are fewer nooks and crannies is worth it to some.

 

[speedlever]

Thanks Jim. It comes down to what preferences my wife has. She's already told me she does NOT like the elongated toilets due to issues she's seen at her mom's new house. I need to see what kind of toilets were installed there, but I'm sure they are some generic contractor grade toilets.

I'm comfy with the performance of any of the Toto's listed in my prior post. Now to see what my better half has to say regarding style and function.

BTW, do Toto's come with wax rings and other accessories (closet bolts, etc.)? Everything but the seat? What else do I need to buy when I bring home the new toilets to replace the old ones?

 

[Sylvan]

Over the past few years my company installed over 2,000 Gerber toilets and not one single call back
Funny your saying Gerber is a problem


During the NYC greater toilet change out I installed over 1,500 Crane and Gerber toilets , now I use Gerber Avalanche exclusively

 

[speedlever]

Regarding Gerber toilets, we have 3 in our house. They are all likely contractor grade and are absolutely terrible toilets and clog easily. I shouldn't have lived with them as long as I have. Perhaps new Gerber toilets are great, but after my experience with my current ones, that brand holds no interest for me.

 

[Terry]

The Avalanche has the 3" flushvalve in the tank and works well. They use a better trapway on that one too.
Some of the 2" flushvalve Gerber toilets not as well.

Updated 5/10/2017
I pulled a Glacier Bay dual flush today. I do that quite often.

I also see that TOTO has the one gallon Drake II in round and elongated now.
I just sold a Round 1G Drake II today in Seattle.
CST453CUFG

Talking about bowl rinse.

 

[Jadnashua]

None of the Totos that I'm aware of come with wax rings or bolts or shutoff valves or hoses. Some do come with a seat, but by no means do all of them, either. While a Toto seat will color match and curve match potentially better than a more generic one, a generic one will fit. For example, some prefer the Bemis soft-close seat because it unlatches easily so you can clean underneath the hinge area.

Both men and women tend to like the extra room at the front in an elongated toilet. Note, you sit the same place and your legs straddle it. Some elongated toilets are no longer than some round ones, but often are at least some. It is rare to find a round-front toilet in a public restroom for a reason. Unless you're quite short, most people, especially when they get older, prefer a comfort or ADA height toilet. Keep in mind that that seat height is still a couple of inches lower than the typical dining room chair.

 

[speedlever]

Just to update (got sidetracked on some other projects for a while), I ordered 3 Drake (I, not II) CST744EL-01 toilets. I also got some Fluidmaster better than wax kits and will try them out in place of wax rings. I hope to do the installation as soon as I finish getting my taxes done!

Thanks for all the help. This forum was very helpful to me.

Edit: naturally, one of the 3 toilets came with a broken bowl. Lol.

 

[speedlever]

Now after several months of use, I am happy to report that not a single Toto toilet has failed to flush the contents of the bowl in one flush. I find I have to hold the lever down for 1 to 2 seconds, but that's about it. A full press and release results in a minimal flush that won't likely get rid of solid waste in one flush. But the toilet plungers have all sat unused since the new toilets were installed. And that in itself is a minor miracle!