RoLo
New Member
Hey folks, long time lurker, initial post. First, thanks for the wealth of information on this forum. It was very helpful having the combined experiences and opinions of this group with installing a drain back water system with a drilled well up here in Ontario, Canada.
I went with a drain back system because the cabin I bought 1) has a bladder-less tank already and 2) I can't dig below the frost line because of the Canadian shield. The pitless is almost below the frost line at 3' (frost line up here is 4'). The bleeder valve is at around 4', between the pitless and the pump (pump @ 80').
So I installed the system and it works great... except it's not draining back into the well. Snifter seems fine, even replaced it just to make sure. I installed yet another (now two) bleeder valves (brass, ball bearing type) but still my water feed freezes. I'm pretty sure I recently figured out why, it's the pump, I went too fancy. I picked up a Grundfos SQE which works like an absolute charm BUT I didn't realize it has a check valve built in, one that I have not removed. So, between that check valve and the head pressure, I'm pretty sure the bleeder valves do not 'release' because the pressure doesn't drop sufficiently in time (if at all) so the system does not drain back into the well.
As I see it, I now have two options.
Option 1) Remove the check valve at the pump. I'm not a fan of this option for a few reasons.
First, the water drains back all the way to the pump and I believe expels through the intake. That means the water flows in reverse over the impellers and, if the pump energizes while it's draining, I'm concerned about possible (long term) damage to the pump.
Second, the Grundfos manual tells you to CUT some tabs to remove the check valve. I don't like the idea of cutting anything from a near $1k pump dammit! I'd much rather take the head off the pump and try to remove the valve in a fashion that it could be re-installed if the situation changes in the future (which it might, but too long to explain). Little support from Grundfos in this regard, does anyone know if the check valve can be removed and re-installed without ordering replacement parts (Grundfos SQE)?
Third, I have to pull the entire line and pump out, around 100'. Not a deal breaker but I'd like to minimize movement in the well.
Option 2) Introduce a permanently open drain hole in the water line in the well. I've read some people simply drill a 1/8" hole in the water line inside the well for drain back. Of course water will escape this hole when the pump in energized but the pump can easily handle this and I'm open to introducing this inefficiency in the system. It means water won't pass the impellers and the head of the water will remain around 4' below the surface.. which theoretically shouldn't freeze.
My concern is that the pressure created by the pump exiting a 1/8" hole could lead to the hole expanding over time in the line or even etching the well casing, as the water would exit perpendicular to the line, which is vertical, so it would fire out horizontally and hit the casing of the well.. at pretty damn high pressures when the pump is energized. I could install a tee below the pitless, use a nipple to attach a 90 degree angle pointing down the well vertically and then end it with a nipple and cap with a 1/8" hole drilled in it. This would 'aim' the hole down the well to the water below.
Other concerns about the 1/8" hole is the possibility of it freezing (will the pressure blow off that ice plug?) or even the possibility of the hole becoming plugged with some debris.
So far, I'm leaning towards the permanent hole in the water line. I would love to get some opinions on this (vs remove the pump check valve vs some other solution?). Also, some suggestions and experiences around permanent drain holes in a drain back system if anyone has some.
Cheers!
I went with a drain back system because the cabin I bought 1) has a bladder-less tank already and 2) I can't dig below the frost line because of the Canadian shield. The pitless is almost below the frost line at 3' (frost line up here is 4'). The bleeder valve is at around 4', between the pitless and the pump (pump @ 80').
So I installed the system and it works great... except it's not draining back into the well. Snifter seems fine, even replaced it just to make sure. I installed yet another (now two) bleeder valves (brass, ball bearing type) but still my water feed freezes. I'm pretty sure I recently figured out why, it's the pump, I went too fancy. I picked up a Grundfos SQE which works like an absolute charm BUT I didn't realize it has a check valve built in, one that I have not removed. So, between that check valve and the head pressure, I'm pretty sure the bleeder valves do not 'release' because the pressure doesn't drop sufficiently in time (if at all) so the system does not drain back into the well.
As I see it, I now have two options.
Option 1) Remove the check valve at the pump. I'm not a fan of this option for a few reasons.
First, the water drains back all the way to the pump and I believe expels through the intake. That means the water flows in reverse over the impellers and, if the pump energizes while it's draining, I'm concerned about possible (long term) damage to the pump.
Second, the Grundfos manual tells you to CUT some tabs to remove the check valve. I don't like the idea of cutting anything from a near $1k pump dammit! I'd much rather take the head off the pump and try to remove the valve in a fashion that it could be re-installed if the situation changes in the future (which it might, but too long to explain). Little support from Grundfos in this regard, does anyone know if the check valve can be removed and re-installed without ordering replacement parts (Grundfos SQE)?
Third, I have to pull the entire line and pump out, around 100'. Not a deal breaker but I'd like to minimize movement in the well.
Option 2) Introduce a permanently open drain hole in the water line in the well. I've read some people simply drill a 1/8" hole in the water line inside the well for drain back. Of course water will escape this hole when the pump in energized but the pump can easily handle this and I'm open to introducing this inefficiency in the system. It means water won't pass the impellers and the head of the water will remain around 4' below the surface.. which theoretically shouldn't freeze.
My concern is that the pressure created by the pump exiting a 1/8" hole could lead to the hole expanding over time in the line or even etching the well casing, as the water would exit perpendicular to the line, which is vertical, so it would fire out horizontally and hit the casing of the well.. at pretty damn high pressures when the pump is energized. I could install a tee below the pitless, use a nipple to attach a 90 degree angle pointing down the well vertically and then end it with a nipple and cap with a 1/8" hole drilled in it. This would 'aim' the hole down the well to the water below.
Other concerns about the 1/8" hole is the possibility of it freezing (will the pressure blow off that ice plug?) or even the possibility of the hole becoming plugged with some debris.
So far, I'm leaning towards the permanent hole in the water line. I would love to get some opinions on this (vs remove the pump check valve vs some other solution?). Also, some suggestions and experiences around permanent drain holes in a drain back system if anyone has some.
Cheers!