bleeder valves and weep holes

[Slugboy6000]

Hello, I'm looking for a way to drain my plumbing back into my well.
It's a simple setup where I'd like to manually control my submersible well pump so that I can fill an open tank with water in freezing temps and let the plumbing drain itself between uses. I'm assuming that the bleeder type valves used in drain-back systems don't work without pressure and wonder if instead a weep hole in the drop pipe would be appropriate in this situation?

My pitless adapter is only 12" below grade due to bedrock, the supply line is insulated and the outlet emerges 8' away into an uninsulated shed.

Thanks

 

[LLigetfa]

I'm assuming that the bleeder type valves used in drain-back systems don't work without pressure

If you constrict the discharge at the top a little or set the bleeder deep enough, then the pressure at the bleeder should get high enough to close the bleeder. Friction loss between the bleeder and the discharge alone would probably be enough for it to close.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Slugboy6000]

That's great, thank you very much LL.

With a 4' frost level, I think my only other question would be how deep a drain-back / bleeder valve should be to avoid freezing.
I really don't know what the temperature is like inside of a 20' steel well casing buried in limestone in the dead of winter.

 

[Valveman]

Heat from the earth will rise in the well casing. Usually pipe in the casing will not freeze. Installing a bleeder orifice too deep will keep it from opening. Just a pound or two will keep it closed, so you don't need a pressurized system to make it work. I would set a brass bleeder about 5' deep and no deeper than 10'.

 

[LLigetfa]

Installing a bleeder orifice too deep will keep it from opening. Just a pound or two will keep it closed, so you don't need a pressurized system to make it work.

Some bleeders spec no more than 10 PSI to open and even those may be special order with others requiring less pressure. The pressure needed to close one is not the same as what is needed to open one as flow is a factor. That said, if one opens at a higher pressure, it stands to reason that it might also need a higher pressure to close so I would design the system with some constriction depending on the depth and GPM of flow.

 

[Slugboy6000]

Lots to learn here, I appreciate the tips.
I do want to constrict the flow down to what will likely be a short length of potable garden hose. Unrestricted flow from my pump is too violent for my needs.
I can't find pressure specs for the two brass bleeders that I've been able to find so far (Boshart BOB07NL & Merrill BBONL75), but I should be sitting at around 4 psi (9' of head) when the pump is off.
I'll keep looking.

 

[Valveman]

The brass ones in the pic above will work. They just won't open if set 23' deep, which holds 10 PSI on them. Set them more shallow than 20' and they will work fine.

 

[Slugboy6000]

Time has flown, but it's time to get a bleeder orifice into my well. A couple of questions have popped up.

With my submersible pump set at 85', should I be using extra long barbed fittings and triple screw clamps to insert a tee into my 1" poly well pipe?

I'm uncertain about mixing brass and bronze and I don't know which to use. To make things worse, some fittings are falsely advertised as bronze. My bleeder will be brass.

 

[Slugboy6000]

Here's a picture of my situation so far, manual pump switch on the wall next to my outlet.

 

[Valveman]

Brass, bronze, copper, SS, are all ok. Mixing any of those with galvanized is where you run into problems.

 

[Reach4]

For your drain back valve, or weep hole, to work properly, you would want something to admit air up top. If there is no valve up top, and the output of the pipe is above the level water in the cistern, then that would be no problem. If the input to the tank is below the water level, you would add a check valve and snifter valve.

 

[Slugboy6000]

Should I use extra-long barbed insert fittings?

The best resource that I found says yes and that they should be bronze.
How do you make a secure connection between a barbed insert fitting and poly pipe using gear clamps?

I'm guessing that there will be over 100lbs of weight dangling from this connection.

 

[Reach4]

I thought this could be interesting:

Bronze Lead-Free Tee 1 Insert x1 Insert x 3/4 FPT

Bronze Lead-Free Tee 1 Insert x1 Insert x 3/4 FPT

aquascience.net

But wait, this one looks even more interesting: https://selectumllc.com/i/Merrill-BOTFNL100
For such a short well, I am not sure that extra-long is warranted, but I have no relevant experience.

 

[Slugboy6000]

That's nice - I'm all in if the barb length is adequate. I just don't know.

 

[Valveman]

Looks good to me. Need 2 hose clamps. It's not the weight so much as the pressure.

 

[Slugboy6000]

Okay, that's great.
Part has been ordered, many thanks!

 

[Valveman]

That's nice - I'm all in if the barb length is adequate. I just don't know.

Looks long enough for 2 clamps, but pictures are deceiving.

 

[Slugboy6000]

The manufacturer specs one clamp for the aforementioned insert and 2 to 3 clamps for their extra long insert fittings. I'll try to dig up some more info.

 

[Reach4]

When you put your two clamps in place for each barb, have the worm gears on opposite sides of the pipe. For the usual stainless steel clamps, torque the screws to 5 ft-lb (60 inch-pounds).

 

[Slugboy6000]

Looks like there's room for two clamps in FIG. A?

I need to find a decent torque wrench.