14" Rough-In Toilet Choices

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by cgskiking, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,316
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Any 12" round Toto will be 3/4" closer to the wall then the 14" round Windham.
    You could pick up a round Dalton for $185 with the tall bowl.

    The Windham is not a good bowl, I throw them away all the time.
    But hey, you're the one with the plunger.

    If we're comparing apples to apples, the Toto elongated Vespin is 28-3/4" verus the Sterling elongated at 32-1/4"
    That's 3-1/2"
    That's a lot.
    I wouldn't have a round bowl in my home. I'm a guy.


    Windham,
    Exposed trapway
    Round
    Standard height
    Washdown bowl instead of siphon, therefore it plugs more and is splashy
    I haul these to the dump all the time.

    [​IMG]

    Sterling Windham 14"


    Vespin II, CST474CEFG
    Skirted bowl
    Elongated
    Universal height for comfort, 16-1/8"
    Sanagloss to stay cleaner
    High performance 3" flush valve and 2-1/8" trapway with rounded bends.
    Of course it sells for more.

    Vespin one, CST764SG
    15-1/8" bowl height

    [​IMG]
    Toto Vespin II
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2010
  2. Chris74

    Chris74 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Collingswood NJ
    I appreciate all the info. I have an elongated in my "man cave", but this is the main bathroom. The partition wall between the sink and tub is the killer, the space to walk between the wall and the toilet is what I'm trying to open up. Scraping by to get to the sink is the real hassle.

    I don't think I want to put in a tall boy, 16 1/2-17" and my wife will be nagging that her feet don't touch the ground.

    Depth is definitely the deciding factor here. You guys talk about the Toto like Al Bundy talked about his "Ferguson", so I'll take your word on it. If I could find something in the 26" depth, I'd be in hog heaven, but now I'm looking at 29-32...inches...mere inches.

    Ok, Vepsin looks like the one then...gotta do it.

    The 14" rough-in is the killer here. I have to check the Toto Unifit models, but you say the Vespin is the shortest depth model, I'll take your word. It's more work than I thought choosing the right bowl for the business.

    Thanks, yet again!

    Chris
  3. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,273
    Location:
    New England
    Those Totos that use the Unifit adapter (Vespin is one of them), use exactly the same toilet, regardless of the 10, 12, or 14" rough-in. It comes with a 12" version, you have to buy extra the 14" version, and then throw away the 12" one. It would be nice if they packaged the adapter separately, but they include it in the box (12" is the most common). It is the adapter that adjusts the toilet to the various rough-ins. Thus, instead of a toilet that has a thicker or thinner tank, Toto just adjusts to the rough-in with the adapter...it always sits the same distance off the wall (nominally 3/4").
  4. Chris74

    Chris74 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Collingswood NJ
    Vespin it is

    I will now have to move the water line, but that's no big deal. I would prefer to have it just a straight chrome pipe coming out of the wall, but now I'll have to make it 90 to the left 3 inches and then 90 back out..

    I saw that Terry doesn't deliver outside the Seattle area - Terry, wanna drive one to NJ? :rolleyes: I was looking at online vendors. I guess all I can do is give them a shot and pray that it arrives in one piece.

    Well, thanks for showing me the light...

    I was checking out those washlets on the Toto sight...interesting...that may be next. :)

    Chris
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2010
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,316
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The CST764SG can get by with 6.5" to the left of center on the shutoff
    The CST474CEFG and get by with 5.5" to the left of center

    If you 90 over on the shutoff, just use a short piece and then the shutoff.
    You don't need to 90 back again.
    One 90 el will be fine.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2010
  6. Chris74

    Chris74 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Collingswood NJ
    Locating the right bowl

    I've been looking for a vendor that sells the Vespin II without raking me across the coals and I'm not having much luck. If I find one for $100 cheaper after I order one, then I'll feel like I flushed my money right down the toilet! (a little potty humor)

    As for your comment 2 notes above this one, you mentioned the Vespin One - Bowl Height 15-1/8"? I thought they were 15".
    However, I'm just going to pull the trigger on one today. Sanagloss is the way to go, right?

    So much to talk and know about with toilets, who knew?
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2010
  7. Chris74

    Chris74 New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Collingswood NJ
    Ok...I did it. You'd think I was buying a new car or something. It's just a toilet...right?

    I went with the Vespin One, I ordered the soft-close seat as well because I read some reviews about how solid, comfortable and quiet they are and I got the 14" unifit adapter.

    Now, I'm a fairly handy guy. I can sweat pipes, install electric, install tile, do dryway and trim work, etc. I'm not a master-anything or expert-anything, just generally handy. I'll post back from a DIYer's perspective for ease of installation for the Toto unifit models.

    Terry: Your site is an awesome resource and I'm really greatful to you and all of your contributers for sharing the knowledge and expertise!

    Chris
  8. Fox

    Fox New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Maine
    I have the limited space for depth from the back wall and a 14" rough-in that I can't change problem as well.

    The specs for the ProFlo PF2200 series round bowl show a 27 3/4" depth from the back wall and I would add 2" to that for the 14" offset.

    29 3/4" is only 1" more than the elongated Toto Vespin with 14" Unifit.

    Am I figuring this correctly? I need two of these for a budget remodel and the ProFlo would save me allot of $.

    Thanks for any information or suggestions.
  9. Fox

    Fox New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Maine
    Is that a round bowl TOTO @ 28 3/4" on the left and an elongated Windham @ 32 1/4" in the photo above?

    Oh, it is an elongated Vespin...
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011
  10. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,316
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Yes, so again, the "elongated bowl" Toto takes up less space then a "round bowl" from someone else.

    If you don't care about space, and money is important, you can always install a round bowl and have it set out from the wall about 3"

    But if you want to pull a bowl back closer to the wall, and pick up "leg room" and space in the bathroom, then using the skirted Toto bowl with the 14" Unift is the only solution.

    [​IMG]

    On the left, would be an elongated TOTO bowl with 14" Unifit, on the right would be the elongated Sterling Windham 14"
    Notice how much more leg room the TOTO has?
  11. Fox

    Fox New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Maine
    The ProFlo looks like it will set out from the wall 3/4" fitted with the tank for 14" offset, and be 29 3/4" from the back wall to end of bowl.

    http://dar.proflo.com/darmanager/Query?PRODUCT_ID=902441&USE_TYPE=SPECIFICATION

    29 3/4" is 1" greater than the elongated TOTO. Not nearly as dramatic as the 3 1/2" difference to the elongated Sterling.

    I can purchase 4 ProFlos for less than 1 TOTO and a 14" unifit. The trade off; 1" less "leg room", a round bowl and I'm sure a lesser quality toilet.

    Thanks for all this information, I'll report back if I have the ProFlo specs wrong.
  12. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,316
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Almost any round bowl will be something like 29.5 from the back wall on a 14" rough.
    It doesn't really matter unless you are worried about leg room.
  13. Fox

    Fox New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Maine
    Leg room is exactly what I'm trying to maximize. And with the 14" rough it is an ugly game of inches.

    Here is a list of 14" rough in toilets that maximize leg room, all round bowls.

    Make/Model -Total depth - Distance from wall
    Kohler/Wellworth - 29 5/8" - 3/4"
    ProFlo/PF2200 - 29 3/4" - 3/4"
    American Standard/Cadet - 30 1/4" - 1"
    Sterling/Wiindham - 30 1/4 - 1"

    If you know of one that is only 29.5" please let me know.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2011
  14. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,316
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The Toto Drake round front is 29.5" on a 14" rough
    CST743E or CST743S
    I'm selling these for $199.99
    But then you can get the Proflo for less.

    The non Toto toilets mentioned above do not move the bowl back. They are standard 12" bowls set at 14", thus you wind up losing leg room. With some bathrooms, that's not an issue.

    The reason this thread was here, was for people that wanted more leg room, which means either replumbing the bathroom, or finding a bowl that can be pulled back to 12"
    Only the Skirted Toto bowls do that, but keep in mind that any toilet will fit on a 14", it's just that they set farther out into the room.

    An elongated bowl set at 12" in the room gives you 2" more leg room when sitting down at 28-3/4" to end of bowl
    Then a round bowl set at 14" that measures 29-1/2" to end of bowl.
    The Proflo would lose 2-1/4" at 29-3/4" to end of bowl.
    The A/S Cadet is even longer.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2011
  15. Alan Muller

    Alan Muller New Member

    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    Delaware
    I don't see the point of making a big fuss about a 14" tank. As noted, it doesn't move the bowl. So unless having the tank sit out from the wall really bothers you, just use a regular 12" toilet. Or use the Toto setup that actually positions the toilet correctly. But unless the china is actually cracked or has something jammed into the trapway, you can replace everything on most toilets pretty easily. Tank bolts, bowl/tank gasket, fill valve, flush valve, flapper, trip lever. You can get all this stuff for $20 or so at a decent hardware store or home center. (Of course, some toilets have unusual hardware or don't flush well or waste expensive water or you hate how it looks or whatever...) It's usually a lot easier to change all the trim on what you have than to haul in a new toilet and dispose of the the old one. And when you are done you'll know how it works!
  16. tjk045

    tjk045 New Member

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Iowa
    I have a few questions for you. After seaching online for days, you(Terry) seem to be the most "qualified" and maybe you can help me.
    You listed Toto toilets that will work with 14" unifit. Is that ALL the Toto toilets that will move 2"? What can I do with a 12" unifit? How far will that move the toilet?
    Ok, here's my situation...who ever built, worked on, "improved" on my house, they screwed up most of it. I'm redoing my bathroom. They had a homemade sinktop that extended over the back of the toilet. After removing it, I see why they added that hideous countertop. It covered the 3 1/2" gap behind the toilet. This is a pretty small bathroom and I would like to move it back to where it "should be". It's roughed in at 15 1/2"!!! Imagine that...with a 3 1/2" gap. Anyway, it's also a slab house. So it's not very moveable without busting up concrete. I can live with the "grand canyon" gap if I have to. And don't have a lot to spend right now. What are my options here? Besides leaving it "in the middle of the room"...I assume I have a standard 12" now.
    What would a 12" Toto Carusoe with 12" unifit do in my situation? Do I need a 12" toilet, 14" unifit? Or do I have to get a 14" toilet and the 14" unifit? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Tim
  17. tjk045

    tjk045 New Member

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Iowa
    or anyone with any advise/knowledge of this situation...feel free to respond
  18. tjk045

    tjk045 New Member

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Iowa
    oh...and would a Toto round or elongated be better? The same? Any opinions?
  19. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,316
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Models from Toto that allow you to move the bowl back 2" with their 14" Unifit adapter are:
    Vespin
    Carlyle
    Carrollton
    Carolina
    Lloyd
    Pacifica
    Soiree
    Guinevere
  20. tjk045

    tjk045 New Member

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Iowa
    I guess I have another question. And it may be a stupid one, but here it is. Could I get a Toto unifit, in whatever size would work the best for me, and use it with any standard 12" toilet? or is there not the same room under other brands?
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