Well/Pump/Pipe advise

[Martin Canada]

Hello all,

I am new to the forum and have a bunch of questions right away. I have a well 300feet deep producing 45 mpg. Static water level is at 30ft. I want to serve 3 houses and some irrigation/wildfire sprinklers in case. I thought 30gpm should be sufficient. People keep telling me that this is overkill. Are they right? My favourite would be an on demand pump/system with a pvc pipe. I read that a 3hp pump would be to much for a pvc pipe but one contractor told me you can use pvc piping if you use a continuous well pump. Any thoughts on that? I just have a hard time making up my mind since there are so many variables and so many different opinions. I hope you all have some advise and can help me figure this out. Thanks so much in advance and I can’t wait for your responses.

 

[Bannerman]

What is the diameter of your well casing?

What is the distance the water will need to travel to each home?

If the property relatively flat or will water need to be further pushed up hill to each home?

Do you plan for a seperate pump house where the pressure tank will be located, or will the pressure tank be located within the closest house to the well?

You mention irrigation. Do you plan to install any yard hydrants before the pressure tank & pressure switch, or will irrigation be fed after the PT/PS?

If the recovery rate is 45 GPM, the water level will likely not lower much when drawing 30 GPM so the pump will only need to lift water vertically 30', maybe 50-60' if the water level did become lower during dry seasons.

Before others make recommendations on suitable pumps, you may want to consider a Cycle Stop Valve so as to prevent the pump from cycling when little water is needed, and to provide constant pressure to all 3-homes while any water is being utilized.

Forum moderator Valveman is the developer and manufacturer of CSVs.

https://cyclestopvalves.com/

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

10 GPM is plenty for 3 houses. You need to size the pump to your irrigation demands. Yes there are tons of variables and everyone will tell you a different story. You are smart to do your own research, as many of those suggestions will be what is best for the installer, not what is best for you. Most installers will try to talk you into a variable speed type pump, probably what you are calling "continuous". "On demand" with a variable speed pump is not good with small pumps, and will be even worse with a 3HP. But if you need a big pump like 2-3HP to run your irrigation, you will need a Cycle Stop Valve to make the large pump work for small demands like when a house needs water at 3 GPM or so.

The Cycle Stop Valve was made to replace those variable speed type systems that cost so much and give so many problems. The CSV also is kind of "on demand" but will let you use as large a pressure tank as you want. Small pump using a Cycle Stop Valve can work with a tank as small as 4.5 gallon size. But with a 3HP you DO NOT WANT ON DEMAND and a CSV will let it work with a 44 gallon size tank or larger if needed. A 3HP with three houses and irrigation I would probably use an 86 gallon size tank even with a CSV.

 

[Martin Canada]

Thanks for you quick reply. Well casing is 4”. Distances to houses are 90’, 350’ and approx. 500’. It is all flat or downhill. Pump house will accommodate all hardware and there will be no T’s between well and PH.

 

[Valveman]

A 1/2HP, 10 GPM pump and a PK1A kit would be plenty large enough to handle that. How are you going to irrigate?

 

[Martin Canada]

I want to use some drip lines/sprinklers in the big garden which I don’t think need plenty of water. I am guessing around 4gpm but the sprinklers for fire protection run around 7gpm each. This times three would be 21 gpm in the case of a wildfire.

 

[Valveman]

Then a 25 GPM pump would be plenty. With a 300' deep well and a static level of 30', I don't really know how deep to figure? Even with a pump set at 300' it would only be lifting from the actual water level, which starts at 30'. Wild guess would be a pumping level of 150'. Add to that another 138' for 60 PSI, using a 40/60 pressure switch. With a total head of 288' you would need a 3HP just as you are guessing. A 25S30-15 would be a good choice. With a 3HP pump I would still use the CSV1A, but at least a 44 gallon size pressure tank. The CSV1A would need to be the CSV1A-3, which has a 3 GPM minimum and tank fill rate. You can get a kit less tank called the PK1ALT-3. That kit will have everything you need except a 44 gallon size tank to turn a regular 3HP pump into a constant pressure system.

 

[Martin Canada]

What are you thinking regarding kind of pipe. Is there strong enough pvc I could run a 3hp pump on. Not a big fan of galvanized so I want to try to avoid it. Stainless is a bit to expensive. Thanks for your help

 

[Valveman]

I have set 3HP pump over 200' deep on 1 1/4" Sch 80 PVC threaded with metal couplings. But the book says you need Sch 120 PVC, which will work up to 700' deep.

 

[VAWellDriller]

Plenty of pvc products to hang the pump on CertainTeed makes certa-lock drop pipe, integral bell end and threaded both ends pvc products. If you go over 2hp or 15 of so gpm probably should go to 2" drop pipe if pvc because headloss in 1.25" sch80 or sch 120 is pretty high especially if you set 300ft.

 

[Martin Canada]

I was going to set the pump at 230’ to allow a future drop in water level. Doubt it will be a hundred feet but I thought of it as a good level. Would a sch120 1 1/4” be sufficient or should I go to 2” to be on the safe side? Any good Goulds pumps out there instead of grundfos or is grundfos the way to go? Asking since I could get a deal on Goulds pumps.

 

[Valveman]

If your pumping level is less than 150' the 3HP, 25 GPM pump will build plenty of pressure to make up for the friction loss in 1 1/4" pipe. If the water level get any deeper than 150' the 2" pipe VA suggested is a good idea. Goulds makes a 25GS30 that has similar performance to Grundfos except that the amps do not drop as good on the Goulds as with the Grundfos. But they are both good pumps.

 

[WellHose DIY Drop Pipe]

I was going to set the pump at 230’ to allow a future drop in water level. Doubt it will be a hundred feet but I thought of it as a good level. Would a sch120 1 1/4” be sufficient or should I go to 2” to be on the safe side? Any good Goulds pumps out there instead of grundfos or is grundfos the way to go? Asking since I could get a deal on Goulds pumps.

Hello Martin
We are new to this forum. We have a product called WellHose DIY Drop Pipe that is much easier for you to work with than PVC or galvie. Please check it out at www.WellHose.com
Cheers

 

[WellHose DIY Drop Pipe]

Plenty of pvc products to hang the pump on CertainTeed makes certa-lock drop pipe, integral bell end and threaded both ends pvc products. If you go over 2hp or 15 of so gpm probably should go to 2" drop pipe if pvc because headloss in 1.25" sch80 or sch 120 is pretty high especially if you set 300ft.

Hello VA. Another option for drop pipes is a product we have called WellHose DIY Drop Pipe. It is easier to work with than PVC of galvie and available in one continuous length. Please check it out at www.WellHose.com
Cheers

 

[VAWellDriller]

Hello VA. Another option for drop pipes is a product we have called WellHose DIY Drop Pipe. It is easier to work with than PVC of galvie and available in one continuous length. Please check it out at www.WellHose.com
Cheers

Love to see some videos in use....Start to finish install of a deeper set pump, and specifically pulling a pump with hose full of water. I saw the video on your website with big coil of pipe in back of a truck with cable already attached. And your SAFE suggestions for DIY setting and retrieving from pitless adapter?

 

[Valveman]

Hello Martin
We are new to this forum. We have a product called WellHose DIY Drop Pipe that is much easier for you to work with than PVC or galvie. Please check it out at www.WellHose.com
Cheers

Yeah, would love to see some examples.

 

[WellHose DIY Drop Pipe]

Hi VA. We only really have videos and pictures of preparing and installing sub pumps on WellHose. I am trying to get one of pulling a pump as well and as soon as I have it I will upload that. But FYI, it is like pulling any pipe. The water comes up as well and you just pull it all out of the well. When poly is full of water, you have to be careful when bending it over at the surface. With PVC, you can only lift it vertical which means it is a lot more difficult to handle. With WellHose you just get it over the Casing Roller and pull it our horizontally. You will not break it. Anyway, I will get a video and post it as soon as I have it. Cheers

 

[Reach4]

Hi VA. We only really have videos and pictures of preparing and installing sub pumps on WellHose. I am trying to get one of pulling a pump as well and as soon as I have it I will upload that. But FYI, it is like pulling any pipe. The water comes up as well and you just pull it all out of the well. When poly is full of water, you have to be careful when bending it over at the surface. With PVC, you can only lift it vertical which means it is a lot more difficult to handle. With WellHose you just get it over the Casing Roller and pull it our horizontally. You will not break it.

Clearly you could not wind it onto a reel as you pull, because the water in the pipe needs to escape. You would not want to pull the pipe deep into a smallish-diameter pulley and close the path. Maybe a bigger pulley would be called for for pulling.

 

[WellHose DIY Drop Pipe]

Hi Reach4. Yes, the water needs to escape. You just pull it over the pulley which we call a Casing Roller and walk away from the well. The WellHose will not get damaged and the water will escape through the elbow as you pull it away from the well. Cheers

 

[Valveman]

Hi Reach4. Yes, the water needs to escape. You just pull it over the pulley which we call a Casing Roller and walk away from the well. The WellHose will not get damaged and the water will escape through the elbow as you pull it away from the well. Cheers

What is the pressure rating and weight limit of this hose?