Water volume low, will pressure booster alone help?

[Dave3333]

First time posting. I read through other booster pump posts but dont think they directly answered my question.

I'm having an issue with water pressure/volume at my house. House was built in 1938. Turning on one faucet no real problem. But turn more than one on or use an appliance like washer machine or dishwasher and taking a shower is not possible. The pressure/ flow drops significantly to where you basically can't take a shower.

Pressure coming into the house measured at 45 psi on outside spigot. Did a flow test in the basement at the closest faucet to water meter and I get 2.5 gpm. From what I'm told the pressure isn't actually to bad its really the volume/flow that is the problem. The water line coming into the house is old galvanized pipe. I'm assuming this has clogged up over the years, and that's why the volume is so low. Replacing this is not an option right now considering I'm being told it could cost anywhere for $5,000- $10,000. I need a cheaper solution.

Can I just add a pressure booster pump and fix my problems? Found THIS ONE and was told by someone else it worked very well to increase pressure in their house.

Or because the volume is so low just boosting the pressure won't work and I actually need to add a storage tank along with a booster pump? Something like THIS

Or is there another soultion?

Any advice/help much appreciated. I can't listen to the wife complain about the shower anymore!

 

[Reach4]

What is the pressure on the outside spigot while you are drawing 2.5 gpm in the basement?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[LLigetfa]

Can I just add a pressure booster pump and fix my problems? Found THIS ONE and was told by someone else it worked very well to increase pressure in their house.

A booster pump works better if the problem is low pressure and not a problem of low flow. A full vacuum is less than 15 PSI difference so if 45 PSI doesn't provide enough flow, 60 PSI probably won't either. With enough additional pressure upstream, flow can be reasonably compensated but suction is limited to only 15 additional PSI.

 

[Dave3333]

What is the pressure on the outside spigot while you are drawing 2.5 gpm in the basement?

It drops to 14 psi

 

[Dave3333]

A booster pump works better if the problem is low pressure and not a problem of low flow. A full vacuum is less than 15 PSI difference so if 45 PSI doesn't provide enough flow, 60 PSI probably won't either. With enough additional pressure upstream, flow can be reasonably compensated but suction is limited to only 15 additional PSI.

But wouldn't that pump (Scala2) maintain a better constant pressure? Seems like now that I did the pressure test with the faucet open there is a significant pressure drop. (From 45 to 14 psi) So wouldn't the booster pump stop that from happening?

 

[LLigetfa]

But wouldn't that pump (Scala2) maintain a better constant pressure? Seems like now that I did the pressure test with the faucet open there is a significant pressure drop. (From 45 to 14 psi) So wouldn't the booster pump stop that from happening?

The only way to sustain the boosted pressure is to keep up with the flow demand and you can only do that by pushing through the restriction, not by pulling. The pulling only adds less than 15 PSI toward the upstream side of the restriction. Essentially it is the difference between the 45 PSI discharging to the atmosphere and discharging into a vacuum.

 

[Dave3333]

The only way to sustain the boosted pressure is to keep up with the flow demand and you can only do that by pushing through the restriction, not by pulling. The pulling only adds less than 15 PSI toward the upstream side of the restriction. Essentially it is the difference between the 45 PSI discharging to the atmosphere and discharging into a vacuum.

Thanks for the quick reply.
Okay I see what your saying. So would a storage tank with booster be the solution? Or is there something else you can suggest?

 

[Reach4]

A booster pump could increase the velocity of your shower quite a bit. It will not make up for your supply pipe, but it would make it a lot better IMO.

I am not commenting on your hardware choices.

 

[Valveman]

Boy that advertisement for that Scala2 pump must make people think it can do anything. Not only will that pump not help a thing, but is not dependable and some people have had more than one fail already, and they haven't even been on the market but a year or so. They will be a money maker for the manufacturer as they are only designed to last a short time, unlike a normal jet pump, which could last 30+ years.

If the lines to the house are restricted and you can only get 2.5 GPM, boosting pressure will only help if you are using less than 2.5 GPM. When you only have 2.5 GPM available and you need to use 5-10 GPM for peak demands, a storage tank and booster pump are needed the same as if you had a weak producing well. You may not need a very large storage tank. Figure your peak demands and length of time they will be running. If you think the worst case would be a shower and a couple other things running for a total of say 6 GPM being used for maybe 30 minutes at a time, You would need a storage tank that holds about 200 gallons of water. When you have 200 gallons stored and ready to use, a booster pump with the right controls can deliver as much flow and pressure as needed until the storage tank is empty.

You will need something like this except you only need a float valve like in a toilet to fill the storage tank from the city supply line.

 

[Reach4]

If the lines to the house are restricted and you can only get 2.5 GPM, boosting pressure will only help if you are using less than 2.5 GPM.

Since he still has 15 PSI on his hose bibb while delivering 2.5 gpm, I am a little more optimistic. I am thinking he might get 4 gpm at a decent pressure with a booster pump and no storage.

An atmospheric tank storage would be more sure and give higher delivery rate, but is more complicated.

Regarding replacing the line coming in, expect that to be cheaper if the fire hydrants are on your side of the street. Local conditions and rules have a significant impact too. But that would be the best way, and it is truly an investment.

 

[Dave3333]

A booster pump could increase the velocity of your shower quite a bit. It will not make up for your supply pipe, but it would make it a lot better IMO.

I am not commenting on your hardware choices.

Thanks for input.

So if the booster pump would help with pressure drop in shower but ultimately not volume. Would adding some sort of storage tank along with a booster pump help with both? Is that even an option? If so do you have recommendations?

 

[Valveman]

If you are already down to 15 PSI at 2.5 GPM, a booster pump would suck the city line down to a negative pressure,which isn't good and in most cities not allowed.

Yes a storage tank and booster would solve your problem. Did you not see my last post?

A recommendation would be a J5SH Gould pump with a PK1A constant pressure control kit drawing out of at least a 200 gallon storage tank with a float valve from the city.

 

[LLigetfa]

Since he still has 15 PSI on his hose bibb while delivering 2.5 gpm, I am a little more optimistic.

If there is more galvanized pipe in the house, there could be more flow restriction between where the water was drawn and the outside hose bib so the test is dubious at best.

I don't see the problem ever fixing itself and see a storage tank and pump as just stop-gap. The flow constriction will only get worse over time.

 

[Dave3333]

If you are already down to 15 PSI at 2.5 GPM, a booster pump would suck the city line down to a negative pressure,which isn't good and in most cities not allowed.

Yes a storage tank and booster would solve your problem. Did you not see my last post?

A recommendation would be a J5SH Gould pump with a PK1A constant pressure control kit drawing out of at least a 200 gallon storage tank with a float valve from the city.

Sorry yes I must not have refreshed the page before I posted that. Thanks for the detailed response.

I get the float valve from the city? If I ask them they will know what I'm talking about I assume? And then just set it up how you have it diagrammed but basically ignore the float switch, cycle sensor, and relay setup on the left as I don't need that?

 

[Reach4]

If I ask them they will know what I'm talking about I assume?

You get the water that goes through the float valve from the city, but they don't provide the float valve. The connection would be after the shut-off valve that is in your basement. I guess I don't know if this is something that should have a construction permit. If it were me, I would not ask. Maybe I am supposed to.

 

[Dave3333]

You get the water that goes through the float valve from the city, but they don't provide the float valve. The connection would be after the shut-off valve that is in your basement. I guess I don't know if this is something that should have a construction permit. If it were me, I would not ask. Maybe I am supposed to.

So a float valve like this?

https://www.doitbest.com/products/430366

 

[Dave3333]

If there is more galvanized pipe in the house, there could be more flow restriction between where the water was drawn and the outside hose bib so the test is dubious at best.

I don't see the problem ever fixing itself and see a storage tank and pump as just stop-gap. The flow constriction will only get worse over time.

There is no other galvanized in the house, everything else is copper.

 

[Valveman]

Yeah that float valve will be fine. You could also use a submersible in the storage tank instead of a jet pump. The sub will produce more water and higher pressure and would be much more quite if that is a concern.

 

[Dave3333]

Yeah that float valve will be fine. You could also use a submersible in the storage tank instead of a jet pump. The sub will produce more water and higher pressure and would be much more quite if that is a concern.
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Okay thanks my only real issue with all this is finding space for a 200 gallon tank. I like the idea of the submersible pump. Any specific brand/size of sub pump you would recommend?

 

[Valveman]

Any regular 10 GPM, 1/2HP will do what you need. Something like a Goulds 10GS05. Putting a sub in a storage tank I would also make sure to use a cooling shroud. You can make one with a piece of 4" PVC thin wall pipe.