Washer Rough, A quick check if I am on the right path.

[Michael P Reilly]

I am very much a novice at DIY plumbing. I have been doing a lot of research on the subject and am planning for a remodel of a Laundry room with full permits. All of the utilities in the room are being flipped to other side of room. The wall shown in this image will be sistering an existing structural brick wall and will be a non-loadbearing 2X4 construction. The window is mounted in the brick wall, this will just be an extended opening. The washer/dryer and sink are shown. The window makes for an unconventional layout so I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something in the general codes. Please let me know if you see anything glaringly wrong or have any additional information needs. I understand that local codes may be more stringent and I will be running this by the inspector prior to build but that is still a ways off.

EDIT: I am under the Florida Building Code 7th Edition (2020) - Plumbing
Which says in the preface that it contains substantial copyrighted materials from the Florida Building Code, Plumbing, 6th Edition (2017) and the 2018 International Plumbing Code®

 

[Terry]

If that's a laundry sink, you will want a 2x1.5x1.5 santee there.
Think about adding a cleanout there for the washer. That could be above the santee for the sink.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Michael P Reilly]

If that's a laundry sink, you will want a 2x1.5x1.5 santee there.
Think about adding a cleanout there for the washer. That could be above the santee for the sink.

So you are saying the bottom of the sinks tee and the top of the washer tee need to be 2"? I thought only the washer drain needed to be 2" and anything downstream. Good to know thank you.
As for the clean out I know that all traps need to have access but I thought the standpipe covered that? If I do put a clean out above the sink santee does that need to protrude through the drywall? I don't believe I have ever seen that but I don't get around much lol.

Thanks for your time.

 

[wwhitney]

Your code, IPC, would allow the laundry sink san-tee to be 1.5", but Terry's and my code, UPC, requires the 2" outlet on the laundry sink san-tee. And 2" seems better without being a problem.

However, your code, IPC, requires that when the sink drain and the washer standpipe drain join together, you provide a 3" branch drain. That's not in the UPC, and seems a bit weird to me. Perhaps due to the pumping action of the washer.

The workarounds for the IPC if you can't provide a 3" vertical drain involve using just one trap for both the washer and the sink. Either dumping the washer discharge into the sink instead of into a standpipe, or using an IPC-specific detail for connecting the sink with no trap to the washer standpipe.

Also, your horizontal vent needs to be at least 6" above the flood rim of the fixtures served (sink and standpipe); looks OK but close.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Terry]

A UPC washer only.

 

[Reach4]

The workarounds for the IPC if you can't provide a 3" vertical drain involve using just one trap for both the washer and the sink. Either dumping the washer discharge into the sink instead of into a standpipe, or using an IPC-specific detail for connecting the sink with no trap to the washer standpipe.

Illustrating that:

 

[Michael P Reilly]

Your code, IPC, would allow the laundry sink san-tee to be 1.5", but Terry's and my code, UPC, requires the 2" outlet on the laundry sink san-tee. And 2" seems better without being a problem.

However, your code, IPC, requires that when the sink drain and the washer standpipe drain join together, you provide a 3" branch drain. That's not in the UPC, and seems a bit weird to me. Perhaps due to the pumping action of the washer.

The workarounds for the IPC if you can't provide a 3" vertical drain involve using just one trap for both the washer and the sink. Either dumping the washer discharge into the sink instead of into a standpipe, or using an IPC-specific detail for connecting the sink with no trap to the washer standpipe.

Also, your horizontal vent needs to be at least 6" above the flood rim of the fixtures served (sink and standpipe); looks OK but close.

Cheers, Wayne

So IPC requires the outlet and pipe below the washing machine santee to be 3"? I completely missed that one? Does it matter that this is not a branch off a larger system? The pipe going through the floor directly runs to a grey water tank in the yard. I do not know what size the pipe is I am connecting to yet but I have to break up some concrete and remove a bunch of galvanized crap before i can figure that out. It may be possible to do 3" but it will use up all of the wall space and break the sole plate.

 

[Michael P Reilly]

Illustrating that:

I looked at that option but I can not reach the stand pipe within the required 30". My dryer is in between them and because of the door opening side and limited space it needs to remain that way.

 

[wwhitney]

So IPC requires the outlet and pipe below the washing machine santee to be 3"?

Yes, the citation is IPC 406.3, which follows. A branch drain is any drain carrying two or more fixtures, in this case the standpipe and the sink.

https://up.codes/viewer/florida/fl-...4/fixtures-faucets-and-fixture-fittings#406.2

Since you mentioned it goes to a greywater tank, not sure what the rules are, maybe it would be exempt. Certainly it would function fine as 2", since that works everywhere that uses the UPC.

Blowing away a wall bottom plate between studs is not a problem for gravity loads, as there are none on the bottom plate there. It could be a problem for lateral loads, e.g. if it's a mudsill in an exterior wall that is sheathed to be a shear panel. You have the option to run separate 2" drains into the floor and combine them on the horizontal below the floor, if that's better for some reason.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

I looked at that option but I can not reach the stand pipe within the required 30". My dryer is in between them and because of the door opening side and limited space it needs to remain that way.

You could move the standpipe to the new sink area, and extend the washer drain line to reach. You could even be rid of a standpipe, and discharge the extended washer drain into the new sink.

It also occurs to me that if you get to breaking concrete and digging, you could just add a sink-only drain line, and combine the two lines in the yard.

 

[Michael P Reilly]

You could move the standpipe to the new sink area, and extend the washer drain line to reach. You could even be rid of a standpipe, and discharge the extended washer drain into the new sink.

It also occurs to me that if you get to breaking concrete and digging, you could just add a sink-only drain line, and combine the two lines in the yard.

I appreciate these comments. Things that make me rethink are great. I thought about moving the standpipe but placing the washer connections behind the dryer seems counter-intuitive to me. I also do not want any future users to be in a position where they need to modify their washer drain to reach the standpipe. I really do not like the idea of draining the washer directly to the sink either. It splashes and causes a lot more noise. This will be a sink in a cabinet with a countertop, not one of those freestanding tubs.

However, your thought about connecting the two drains under the floor might be very helpful.
My main concern right now is whether or not the pipe going to the grey water tank is even a 3". If it isn't I would need to replace the entire pipe?

 

[John Gayewski]

The trap dimensions are off according to upc. Does IPC allow a standpipe to be longer than 24" (trap weir to inlet)? The above illustration says not less than 30"? That seems off.

 

[Michael P Reilly]

Your code, IPC, would allow the laundry sink san-tee to be 1.5", but Terry's and my code, UPC, requires the 2" outlet on the laundry sink san-tee. And 2" seems better without being a problem.

However, your code, IPC, requires that when the sink drain and the washer standpipe drain join together, you provide a 3" branch drain. That's not in the UPC, and seems a bit weird to me. Perhaps due to the pumping action of the washer.

The workarounds for the IPC if you can't provide a 3" vertical drain involve using just one trap for both the washer and the sink. Either dumping the washer discharge into the sink instead of into a standpipe, or using an IPC-specific detail for connecting the sink with no trap to the washer standpipe.

Also, your horizontal vent needs to be at least 6" above the flood rim of the fixtures served (sink and standpipe); looks OK but close.

Cheers, Wayne

I may have a problem with the 3" drain. It appears the pipe exiting the house to the grey water tank is 2" (it measures about 2.5" on the outside diameter.) Would this mean I need to replace the entire line to the tank or are there some exceptions an inspector can make for existing conditions?

Also, I think this is Cast Iron, can you confirm?

 

[John Gayewski]

I may have a problem with the 3" drain. It appears the pipe exiting the house to the grey water tank is 2" (it measures about 2.5" on the outside diameter.) Would this mean I need to replace the entire line to the tank or are there some exceptions an inspector can make for existing conditions?

Also, I think this is Cast Iron, can you confirm?

Your showing 4 pipes in the picture. One of them is definitely cast iron, one might be. If it's magnetic it's cast

 

[Reach4]

The trap dimensions are off according to upc. Does IPC allow a standpipe to be longer than 24" (trap weir to inlet)?

Yes.

In IPC, standpipes shall extend a minimum of 18 inches (457 mm) and a maximum of 42 inches above the trap weir. Also there is no min or max for the trap above the floor, as there is in UPC.

 

[wwhitney]

Maybe section 1302 On-Site Nonpotable Water Reuse Systems exempts you from complying with 406.2? I'm not clear, it references various other obvious sections to comply with, without referencing Chapter 4. So I don't know if only the parts of earlier chapters referenced apply, or if everything applies (but then why reference the obvious sections?)

https://up.codes/viewer/florida/fl-plumbing-code-2020/chapter/13/nonpotable-water-systems#1302

Seems like a good question for your building department.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Michael P Reilly]

Your showing 4 pipes in the picture. One of them is definitely cast iron, one might be. If it's magnetic it's cast

Great tip, thank you, it is Cast.
Appologies for the pic...I imagined it was obvious I was talking about the drain line...it wasn't hehe.

 

[Michael P Reilly]

If that's a laundry sink, you will want a 2x1.5x1.5 santee there.
Think about adding a cleanout there for the washer. That could be above the santee for the sink.

I appreciate the help. One last question. no one mentioned it but since the washer is already vented does it's connection to the stack need to be a "combination tee wye" or is the santee good?

 

[wwhitney]

I appreciate the help. One last question. no one mentioned it but since the washer is already vented does it's connection to the stack need to be a "combination tee wye" or is the santee good?

Since it's vented already, it can be either a combo or a santee. If it were relying on the stack above as its vent connection, it would have to be a san-tee.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Michael P Reilly]

Been a while, have a bit of an updated drawing and information. Also a question.

I spoke with the lead inspector for my area and he said the 3" rule is in the "building" code which is more for commercial applications. His guys would inspect this work based on the "Residential" code which does not include the part about needing to be a 3" drain. So I will be able to tie in to the existing pipe and have a 2" drain.

My question is about the green connector in the following image. I have recently learned that a sanitary tee is never supposed to be in this "on it's back" position. However, this is for a vent with no waste flow. Should I change this to a sanitary wye?