Venting and routing for a recovery replacement of pipes

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quantumbass

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Hello,
I had to have my original copper drain pipes pulled, and I am trying to pick up where my house was left after someone bailed on me. The short of it was that a copper 2" pipe went through the HVAC return duct right over the HVAC main stack with a failing joint there, so it was supposed to be rerouted, but I am picking up midstream on this job, and it's now a DIY. I am good with the doings from being a building maintenance man years ago but not sure about the right solutions. What is in the pictures is a run where there is an AAV (both 20 DFU branch/ 8dfu stack) at
the kitchen:

kitchen-run-50-500--1415-1061-50-500--708-531.png

and one at the bathroom:
bathroom-run-50-500--1544-1158-50-500--772-579.png
with only the main vent stack. There is a clean-out on both AAV locations, and set to be 6" above the p-traps. I think I have everything in order, but I want to check before I drill a hole through that main beam there.
20230109_130850-50-500--809-1078-50-500--405-539.png

I would think I need to brace it up since it's the main beam running the length of the house, but the holes above the HVAC 2 ft away are not reinforced so I may be overthinking it, but I don't want to start cutting holes before I am sure on the path here. I am reusing all of the holes in the joist that was already there. That is why the kitchen flows toward the shower, then toward the bathroom sink, and then to the main drainage stack. The points of interest to me are

the shower assembly
20230109_130818-50-500--1035-1381-50-500--518-691.png

I dry fitted it together and
the kitchen assembly:

20230109_130712-50-500--886-1182-50-500--443-591.png

, and it's the position in the bottom plate (not coming in front of the plate and block as I did to hold it in place in the picture with wire)


Thank you for the help; I want to get this right and effective for years to come since I have so much of the walls and floors opened up and I have to bail myself out here anyways.
 
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quantumbass

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just wanted to bump this. If there was anything that I didn't get clearly detailed to help please let me know. I really just don't want to have to cut any new wholes only to need to redo it and cut even more. Thank you for the help cheers
 

wwhitney

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My comments:

- Up.codes says Idaho uses the unamended 2015 UPC, which would not allow AAVs. But perhaps their information is inaccurate and there is a state or local amendment allowing AAVs?

- At the kitchen sink you have the wrong fitting under the cleanout and AAV. That needs to be a sanitary-tee.

- With the AAV in the wall, it will need an accessible ventilated wall box, so it can ingest air and so that you can change it in the future. I'm not clear on whether it will be accessible behind the sink like that. An AAV under a sink can be within the sink cabinet itself, which makes it more accessible. It just needs to be 4" above the horizontal sink trap arm. And then the usual san-tee at the wall would just be a quarter bend.

- At the shower you show a san-tee on its side, that needs to be a combo. San-tees with drainage coming in the side inlet can only be used with the outlet vertical.

- You show slip joint fittings for the tub waste and overflow. That's allowed if they will remain accessible, e.g. via an access panel. If you want to close everything up and not provide future access, you need to use glue joint fittings.

- On drilling the "main beam" that would generally be something to avoid. I'd need a lot more details to comment on whether it would be OK.

- I'm not clear on the bathroom drainage layout you propose, a plan view diagram would be clearer. But it appears you have no vent for the tub, which is a problem. Bringing the kitchen drain into the bathroom and combining it with bathroom fixtures before the stack will preclude using horizontal wet venting for the bathroom. So it will likely be better to keep the kitchen drain separate from the bathroom fixtures.

Cheers, Wayne
 

quantumbass

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@wwhitney thank you for getting back
- Up.codes says Idaho uses the unamended 2015 UPC, which would not allow AAVs. But perhaps their information is inaccurate and there is a state or local amendment allowing AAVs?

So in where I am at, what is adopted was `2015 Idaho State Plumbing Code` and `You can view these codes at the ICC website under "International Codes" for free.` which I took as being chapter 29 in the 2015 IBC, but this is the 2017 ID state plumbing code as I found it which says
In remodels, an A.A.V. may be used with island fixtures or remotely located sinks such as in bar, kitchen, or laundry tray locations. An A.A.V. shall not be used in bathroomgroups.
So I missed that part on the bathroom group, but on the same token, I thought it was a branch off, not that it was a part of the group? But here was what I was basing my assembly from https://www.ipscorp.com/pdf/professionals/STU013_StudorManual_8th_ed_2016.pdf

- With the AAV in the wall, it will need an accessible ventilated wall box, so it can ingest air and so that you can change it in the future. I'm not clear on whether it will be accessible behind the sink like that. An AAV under a sink can be within the sink cabinet itself, which makes it more accessible. It just needs to be 4" above the horizontal sink trap arm.

Check on that, I was going to put it in a box with the clean out, but I will look at putting it in the sink cabinets

And then the usual san-tee at the wall would just be a quarter bend.

I have a new image of the dry fit I believe meets the needed corrections.

- At the shower you show a san-tee on its side, that needs to be a combo. San-tees with drainage coming in the side inlet can only be used with the outlet vertical.

The original run for the kitchen is basically the same as I had laid out, but there were a wye 1.5 joists back where the kitchen run went through the HVAC return right over the HVAC stack, which they had a joint in there that precipitated the moving of the joint a little closer to where the shower branched off. I will switch to a wye; I just thought that there would be less reduction in flow.

- You show slip joint fittings for the tub waste and overflow. That's allowed if they will remain accessible, e.g. via an access panel. If you want to close everything up and not provide future access, you need to use glue joint fittings.
I will see about welding or a brass version.

- On drilling the "main beam" that would generally be something to avoid. I'd need a lot more details to comment on whether it would be OK.

100% I would rather not, but I didn't see how to do otherwise without running through the old holes going through the HVAC. I did get some 2x6 to brace the old area and the new area. What info can I get you that would make it a little more sure of the best course?
- I'm not clear on the bathroom drainage layout you propose, a plan view diagram would be clearer. But it appears you have no vent for the tub, which is a problem. Bringing the kitchen drain into the bathroom and combining it with bathroom fixtures before the stack will preclude using horizontal wet venting for the bathroom. So it will likely be better to keep the kitchen drain separate from the bathroom fixtures.
There is a vent for the shower right above; I was just told that the 2 aav's would more than cover the need for that vent to be there. I can run a new vent.

a plan view diagram would be clearer.

I will get a drawing up with the images on the new dry fits shortly. Thank you for the help, it's greatly appreciated.
Cheers - Jeremy
 

wwhitney

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So I missed that part on the bathroom group, but on the same token, I thought it was a branch off, not that it was a part of the group?
A lav is definitely part of a bathroom group. So you'll need to rethink your lav and bathroom venting. I didn't look at the Studor Manual, your adopted code takes precedence.

I will see about welding or a brass version.
Brass waste and overflow is often slip joint, although perhaps there are ones that just use finely threaded joints. But if it's going to be inaccessible, plastic glue joint (solvent weld) is best. You can get kits that have a tub shoe and an overflow that attach to regular schedule 40 pipe.

100% I would rather not, but I didn't see how to do otherwise without running through the old holes going through the HVAC. I did get some 2x6 to brace the old area and the new area. What info can I get you that would make it a little more sure of the best course?
A dimensioned floor plan of everything supported by that beam, with dimensions of all the members.

Cheers, Wayne
 

DirtyJerz

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So I missed that part on the bathroom group, but on the same token, I thought it was a branch off, not that it was a part of the group?
I think the bigger miss is the part about island fixtures or remotely located sinks. Does that apply to your kitchen sink? If not, no AAV here.
 
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