Toilet Flange Issue

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by DiYGuy2021, Jan 25, 2021.

  1. DiYGuy2021

    DiYGuy2021 New Member

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    Hello. I am trying to replace an old toilet with a new one, and I discovered the outer portion of the flange was rusted, and that the flange itself has a gap around it with no finished floor uniformaly around it. I got a Sioux Chief repair ring to put over the rusted portion. This will either make it level with the flooring, or just slightly above, when added. Will that cause any issues?

    Will I have an issue with water infiltrating around the flange where there is no finished flooring, and damaging the subflooring, or the floor below in the house?

    I'm not sure that the flooring is level on both sides of the flange, either. What can I do about that?

    Thanks!
     

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  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    No.

    That top inside black plastic may be part of the flange, but I suspect it is a thin remnant of a wax ring with a horn, that should be removed. Check that out.
    That should be prevented by your wax or waxless seal.
    Shims. You for sure want shims to prevent rocking. If you wanted to make the toilet level with more shims, that would be possible. But not-rocking is the big thing. When using wax, have the shims positioned before dropping the toilet onto the wax. You want to compress wax, and never de-compress during installation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
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  4. DiYGuy2021

    DiYGuy2021 New Member

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    Thanks.

    I thought maybe the plastic part of the flange was chemically bonded to the ABS. I took out the screws on the corroded metal portion, then tried to pull everything off the ABS pipe, and it was pulling the ABS pipe upward at the same time.

    When I was speaking about where the flange was in relation to the floor, I was speaking about the very top of the flange being level or slightly above the level of the floor, not the bottom of the flange lip. Is that a problem?
     
  5. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    If that top center plastic does not easily separate, then don't force it.

    With the top of the flange 3/8 above the top of the floor, I don't think there would ever be a problem when using wax. Where is the line? Maybe 7/16 or 1/2 or 5/8.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  6. DiYGuy2021

    DiYGuy2021 New Member

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    Thank you. I guess what I'm wondering now is, since my flange isnt completely above the floor, like your picture, and most of the metal flange is below the floor, as you can see in my picture, is that an issue?

    As you can see in the picture, it is way lower than your picture.
     
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    No. Wax, or even waxless seals adapt.
     
  8. DiYGuy2021

    DiYGuy2021 New Member

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    Thanks for all your help. For future knowledge, would my flange being lower expose more of the wax ring, and not seal as long as a setup like the picture you posted?

    Which seals better? Wax or waxless?
     
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    I am not a plumber. I have only used wax so far.

    There are various waxless. You can remove a toilet with waxless, and put it back. You can add shims no problem, because waxless can deal with a little de-compression due to the resiliency. Plumbers tend to get it right the first time.

    If you vigorously plunge a toilet into a clogged sewer line, you could blow out the wax. Waxless would probably survive. If the clog is in the toilet trapway itself, the wax blow-out should not happen.

    With wax, you need to not de-compress the wax, such as adding shims. Have the shims in place before dropping the toilet. Wax adapts to a wide variety of depths including serious slants and thin clearances.
     
  10. DiYGuy2021

    DiYGuy2021 New Member

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    Well thought out response and great info.

    Is it worth cutting out the metal part of the toilet flange with a multitool and replacing with the Sioux Chief stainless steel repair ring?
     
  11. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Not IMO. I would put a not-split ring atop the existing ring. Sioux Chief 886-MR is not split. I think it would usually go over the top.
    https://www.siouxchief.com/products/drainage/residential/closet-flanges/spacer-repair/ringer

    Another alternative is one of these:
    Superior Model # 21015 repair ring has mounting tabs/ears outside.
    PASCO 21013 is similar in red
    Jones Stephens C85000 is similar in blue.

    Those will hold down the closet bolts (one of the jobs of a ring), and they themselves can be held down by screws through the ears.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  12. DiYGuy2021

    DiYGuy2021 New Member

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    Thanks.

    Why does color matter? Can you see it with the toilet mounted? What I'm going to do is use the Sioux Chief ring, unless the subflooring is too rotted that it won't mount there. I guess I will find out?

    I wonder why the ring doesn't tell you what size screws to use.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  13. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't. Different brands. It's all covered up in service.
     
  14. DiYGuy2021

    DiYGuy2021 New Member

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    Side note...

    Why can't I just use a multitool and cut between the pipe and ring?
     
  15. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    To what end? I think you would like the ring to hold the plastic in place.
     
  16. DiYGuy2021

    DiYGuy2021 New Member

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    To get rid of the rusted piece. You also mentioned that you thought it was a horn ring, or something of that sort, so I thought I could replace it with something better?
     
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    I suspect the black thing is similar to the black thing on this wax ring. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hercule...et-Wax-Ring-with-Plastic-Horn-90241/203308315

    I suggest you not remove the rusted metal. If knowing rust is there bothers you, you could paint that with some rusty metal primer before putting your new stainless steel repair ring over the rusty ring. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Ol...at-Rusty-Metal-Primer-Spray-7769830/202056392
    If it doesn't seem that way to you, don't get destructive.
     
  18. DiYGuy2021

    DiYGuy2021 New Member

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    Thanks. I thought maybe the plastic part and metal part was one piece, so I was going to try to cut out with multitool, to begin anew with just the top of the pipe. What is the purpose of the metal, then, if it's not attached to the plastic horn wax ring thing?
     
  19. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Hold the toilet down, and hold the incoming pipe in place. [​IMG][​IMG]

    The new repair ring will take over the hold-the-toilet-down job. The holding the pipe in place job has less stress, so the existing rusty ring can probably do that fine.
     
  20. DiYGuy2021

    DiYGuy2021 New Member

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    Thanks. So if I can remove the black plastic part, should I get another wax ring with horn, or replace it with something else?
     
  21. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    So your old flange is tilted a bit.
    I brought this down from #5 to make it convenient for somebody to suggest what you should use for a wax ring.
     
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