Theory of Operation for Kohler Cimarron?

[keeley2]

So is there any correlation between the wax ring seal and flushing performance? I've just installed a new toilet and it doesn't seem to flush properly. A few symptoms:
Sometimes it gurgles while discharging.
I have to hold down the flush handle to get it to fully flush (there is virtually no slack in the chain).
There doesn't seem to be as much water in the bowl as the previous toilet.

The toilet flange is slightly below the top of the new tile floor I just laid and I'm not sure the wax ring seal is tight.
BTW, it's a Kohler Cimarron toilet set to 1.6 gpf.
thanks

tom

 

[Cass]

When you installed the wax ring you may have moved it slightly and have a pile of wax partly blocking the exit hole on the bottom of the toilet...that would not have been my choice of toilet...where did you purchase it...

 

[Sponsor]

 

[keeley2]

Home Depot - the plumbing guy there stated he bought one and "loved it". Who knew?

 

[Gary Swart]

Actually, lots of us "know" about Kohler toilets, but that's beside the point. I concur with the assessment Cass gave you, but have a question. Did you use a ring with the plastic funnel on the bottom? If so, that is very likely the root of your problem. Use a plain-Jane ring and be sure to set it straight down. If the toilet makes contact while the base of the toilet is still above the floor, you should be OK. Use your body weight to continue pushing the toilet into the wax ring until full contact with the floor is reached. Do not use the flange bolts to pulled the toilet down.

You also should know that the chain to the flapper on low flow toilets does not have slack. If you trip the handle and immediately release it, it does not, by design, empty the tank. Only if you hold the handle down for a couple of seconds will the entire tank drain. New low flow toilets do not have as much water in the bowl as the old timers had, there is nothing you can do to change that.

 

[Terry]

The Cimarron is a 1.6 gallon toilet.

All 1.6 gallon toilets have less water in the bowl
Use only 1.6 gallons
Do not drain the tank, remember the 1.6 gallon rule?

If you hold the handle down, it defects the 1.6 gallon rule, and you empty all 3 gallons in the tank.

It works with 1.6

The Cimarron™ gurgles at the end of the flush.
Nothing is going to change that.

 

[keeley2]

Actually, lots of us "know" about Kohler toilets, but that's beside the point. I concur with the assessment Cass gave you, but have a question. Did you use a ring with the plastic funnel on the bottom? If so, that is very likely the root of your problem. Use a plain-Jane ring and be sure to set it straight down. If the toilet makes contact while the base of the toilet is still above the floor, you should be OK. Use your body weight to continue pushing the toilet into the wax ring until full contact with the floor is reached. Do not use the flange bolts to pulled the toilet down.

You also should know that the chain to the flapper on low flow toilets does not have slack. If you trip the handle and immediately release it, it does not, by design, empty the tank. Only if you hold the handle down for a couple of seconds will the entire tank drain. New low flow toilets do not have as much water in the bowl as the old timers had, there is nothing you can do to change that.

Yup, I used the ring that came with the toilet (plastic sleeve on the bottom). I'm recalling now that I felt very little resistance (if at all) when seating the toilet. So does a loose seal change flushing characteristics (other than a potential leak?). Does the seal create some kind of vacuum and if it's not sealed correctly, flushing is hindered?
So I'll go out and get a new ring and reseat the toilet. Or should I get 2 rings, placing one over the flange and placing the other on the output of the toilet?
thanks - you guys are a great resource!
tom

 

[keeley2]

The Cimarron is a 1.6 gallon toilet.

All 1.6 gallon toilets have less water in the bowl
Use only 1.6 gallons
Do not drain the tank, remember the 1.6 gallon rule?

If you hold the handle down, it defects the 1.6 gallon rule, and you empty all 3 gallons in the tank.

It works with 1.6

The Cimarron™ gurgles at the end of the flush.
Nothing is going to change that.

Terry - so if that's the way this toilet works (low flow), I really don't like it. Any chance my local home depot will take back a used toilet? I'm thinking I already know the answer but thought I'd ask.

 

[Terry]

Terry - so if that's the way this toilet works (low flow), I really don't like it. Any chance my local home depot will take back a used toilet? I'm thinking I already know the answer but thought I'd ask.

You can't buy a toilet anymore with 3.5 gallons
The last were sold in 1992. That was seventeen years ago.
And with future water shortages, you should keep and use the new one.

 

[Cass]

Their policy (HD) is that they will take back anything...return it and buy a Toto some where before the price increase...you will like it...