Taxation and Misrepresentation

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by nhmaster, Oct 30, 2008.

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  1. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

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    I heard of it in August when it was filed and then nothing until this week.

    I have heard of all the problems he has with his birth certificate and half his family in Kenya saying he was born there and some others saying it was at both hospitals in HI. I've heard about his web site putting up and within 2-3 days pulling what was considered a fake copy of a birth certificate from HI.

    And then his visit last week to HI to visit his white grandmother when it was reported a few days later that the (democrat) Governor sealed his record or file.

    If he wins this election this is a serious constitutional problem. And if he were made to step down, I can imagine the 'civil unrest' that probably will cause.

    Can you believe that the FBI does not do any checks on candidates because the political parties are charged with the responsibility of making sure the candidate is leagally able to run for the office (the DNC is a Defendant also in this court case). And then if the person is elected to Congress or the Presidency, they, the FBI, simply gives them a Secret Security Clearance? Unbelievable!
     
  2. Ladiesman271

    Ladiesman271 Homeowner

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    More like clearing 16 to 17% before income taxes (XOM for last three years).

    I would like to know which members of the hedge fund / retirement fund / wall street crowd has been manipulating oil futures for the past year.
     
  3. Ladiesman271

    Ladiesman271 Homeowner

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  4. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades

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    Gentlemen, adjust your tin hats?


    Gary - the plaintiff in that case, is the same cat who sued the government for being complicit in 9/11. He's a wingnut. And the reason it's back in the news, is that the court threw it out.

    As far as his case, factcheck & other have thouroughly de-bunked it. Do a LITTLE reasearch before you repeat stuff? It only takes 1/2 minute to see if snopes has something on it...

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp



    Mark - attaching a legit name & email adress to a bogus message, doesn't make the message any less bogus. Have you looked at the candidates' actual tax plans?

    It only takes 1/2 a minute to check snopes, when you get one of these...

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/taxes.asp



    C'mon - with all the real, legit differences between the candidates and their policies - why are you participating in this gutter BS?

    This is how republics die - when citizens put their party ahead of the country, ahead of honest discourse, ahead of their responsability as citizens.

    I'm completely disapointed in you guys.
     
  5. Dunbar Plumbing

    Dunbar Plumbing Master Plumber

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    Frenchie,


    Those "links" you just posted don't hold water as credible because of the following:


    Goooogle ads all over that site loaded with Obama links

    Pop-up ads are from Sundance Channel.....you know what affiliation that comprises

    The references to data on the tax plans is from CNN, CNBC? And what side of the fence do those affiliations tie to?

    The birth certificate link you provided is referenced to published books, not any credible reference to "actual" data. Those are opinions written by 3rd parties, not a .gov document listing showing the statistics of what qualifies and what doesn't.

    Why won't he show the true document? Or release his college records? Where there is smoke, there is fire.


    Snopes as you might think is a good way to debunk statements from time to time but it's clearly evident that between their advertising and pop-ups, who they refer to for statistical data is in question.


    Just the same as if someone proved a point and linked out fox news or a gop.com website.

    You'd be the first to toot your horn stating it can't be credible.


    So...

    Please, provide us with links to proof about these statements that come from a source that doesn't participate in catering to one party or another.



    Those tax statements are from the sources back in June of this year....and we all know they've been tweaked on both sides since then.


    In my opinion about the birth certificate and tax proposals....none of it really matters to me. There's tons of reasons for or against an opponent...


    my beef is with the company he has kept all the years leading up to this point. That's my concern.



    I'm going to wait for you to bring up some credible sources, or anyone for that matter. No spin either.




    It seems you're doing the above to prove a point. Please don't disappoint us.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2008
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    I won't bother to say who I'm voting for, only I will know on Tuesday.
    Well, maybe my kids will know.

    But it is that time of year, where you can't look at a website without ads popping up with campaign messages, the television and radio are playing more ads, and most of what you see and hear is just white noise.

    In a few more days it will all end.
    At least for the past month I haven't seen any competing plumbing ads on televison.
    So if you are in the Seattle area, this is my ad.
    See, even I'm doing it.
    Terry Love
     
  7. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

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    So we have dragged both candidates, a few corporations and finally God himself into the discussion and all without a solution. Not that I expected one. After all some very very smart folks have been slugging away at this for a lot longer than any of us have. Still, if it all makes you take a few moments and take more than a fleeting glance at your candidate of choice, perhaps you just may change your mind. When you hear words like corporate greed and Unfair tax rates for the rich it's easy to jump on that band wagon. This is America. Everyone despises a winner:D However it's not enough to take these statements at face value. to get a clear picture you need to look into both sides of the equation with as much open mindedness as you can muster. I will say it one more time. A business tax is another tax on the consumer. Prove me wrong.

    By the way. I totally agree about churches. The founding fathers wanted a separation of church and state, not a free ride. They own property, they should pay property taxes. They have income, they should not be tax exempt. Nor should any organization that is paying salaries to those working for it.
     
  8. Cookie

    Cookie .

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  9. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

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    I have a very good friend that lives in Melborne. those poor folks are about at wits end with the endless taxation and corruption that runs rampant in Austrailian government. We are by no means alone in this. In fact many nations suffer far worse than we do.
     
  10. frenchie

    frenchie Jack of all trades

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    You're doing that thing again, bro - where you argue with the leftie in yer head, instead of me.

    I've been known to link directly to Fox.



    And... you're missing my point, completely.
     
  11. Dunbar Plumbing

    Dunbar Plumbing Master Plumber

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    LOL!


    Sucks when you're asked to back up a statement and can't.


    BTW, There's no McCain ads on that site, NONE. Nothing that represents an equal division.


    Entertain us when you can muster more credible statistical data instead of quick witted one-liners.



    You didn't expect me to check the sources.......did you...
     
  12. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

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    Politics suck....

    Talking politics all makes me want to puke...

    smoke and mirrors, lies and false allegations...
    and all around horse-shit



    I cant wait till its all over....


    I cant wait till OBAMA becomes president....


    and I will be forced to pay health benefits for all my employees...

    its no problem, I just wont have any...
     
  13. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    We studied economics together and toured the land of oz once or twice together. I know you will disagree with this, but, they are at no more wits' end than we are here. This is a discussion in itself which is too extensive. My point in posting the video was to show that corporate greed is worldwide. Nothing more.
     
  14. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

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    Speaking of other countries... And being worse off.

    My wife was born in South Africa in 1952 and the family moved to Rhodesia when she was 2. For the geographically challenged, that's Zimbabwe now, it's on the east coast of Africa. Africa is a continent between the southern Atlantic and Indian oceans, south of Europe. Those oceans, they are the big blue areas on a world map...

    Her Dad died and the family, she and her family moved back to SA in 1975 during the 'civil war' in Rhodesia. She and her son came here (legally) in 1999.

    She is in contact with many people from both countries that due to 'politics' and the aftermath of drastic changes made in both countries have scattered around the world. Many are in Australia, New Zealand, England, Canada and here.

    The majority of them see a sinister similarity to our current political situation and what happened in SA and Zimbabwe over the last 10-20 years.

    My wife has two daughters and their husbands and kids, her mother, a sister and her husband and 3 daughters and a brother and his wife still in SA.

    I also see a similarity and hear the same type rhetoric from Obama as was and is still used in SA and Zimbabwe, especially when CHANGE is the only thing I believe he is being honest about.
     
  15. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

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    Change is a powerfull word. Bill Clinton rode it to victory and 8 years later the power of the word is still strong. A candidate can use it with impudence. Some change is good. Some change is necessary. Not all change is for the better.
     
  16. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    After the election, if Bama wins, we will complain and gripe a while then 4 years from now the frog will be just a little hotter in the pot and one day...some time in the future...he will be totaly cooked.

    There are so many trees no one can see the forest..
     
  17. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

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    Its jsut all the same stuff...




    TI thought that they were talking about the lawsuit to find out where Obama was legally born.. were they not??..


    On your subject......voter fraud....
    that is how elections are won in this country anyway???

    its never been the popular vote but the electorial vote that counts... theirhas always beena lot of controversy about
    that situation


    its all the same old horse-crap.....who can lie the best
    and cheat without "technically" getting caught..




    Politics....

    selling your soul to the devil to lie, cheat and slander to to keep
    your party in office and keep your bougus job...and all the perks that
    come with your job.....




    I would much rather just do plumbing...


    .



    whatever....
     
  18. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    Ohio
  19. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

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    Sensitivity trainer.. and plumber of mens souls
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    indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
    How long will it take ??

    I know with my business that I just cant go and write myself a bonus anytime I feel like it, I cant just give my
    employees a bonus without them some-how earning that bonus or raise...

    their has to be money in the account before I go out and buy a new 45,000 van......I cant just buy it on credit and expect my chilldren to pay my bills for me ....

    or can I ???



    > _ HOW LONG DO WE HAVE?
    >
    > This is the most interesting thing I've read in a long
    > time. The sad thing about it, you can see it coming.
    >
    > I have always heard about this democracy countdown. It is
    > interesting to see it in print. God help us, not that we
    > deserve it.
    >
    > HowLong Do We Have?
    >
    > About the time our original thirteen states adopted
    > theirnew constitution in 1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish
    > history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this
    > to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000
    > years earlier.>
    > "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply
    > cannot exist as a permanent form of government."
    >
    > "A democracy will continue to exist up until the
    > time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous
    > gifts from the public treasury." ($700 Billion Bailout)
    >
    > "From that moment on, the majority always vote for the
    > candidates who promise the most benefits from the public
    > treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally
    > collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always
    > followed by a dictatorship."
    >
    > "The average age of the world's greatest
    > civilizations from the beginning of history, has been
    > about 200 years"
    >
    > "During those 200 years, those nations always
    > progressed through the following sequence:>
    >
    > 1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
    > 2. From spiritual faith to great courag e;
    > 3. From courage to liberty;
    > 4. From liberty to abundance;
    > 5. From abundance to complacency;
    > 6. From complacency to apathy;
    > 7. From apathy to dependence;
    > 8. From dependence back into bondage"
    >
    > Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law,
    > St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts
    > concerning the 2000 Presidential election:
    >
    >
    > Number of States won by:
    >
    > Gore: 19
    > Bush: 29
    >
    >
    >
    > Square miles of land won by:
    >
    > Gore: 580,000
    > Bush: 2,427,000
    >
    >
    > Population of counties won by:
    >
    > Gore: 127 million
    > Bush: 14 3 mill ion
    >
    >
    > Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
    >
    > Gore: 13.2
    > Bush: 2.1
    >
    >
    > Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the
    > territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the
    > taxpaying citizens of this great country.
    >
    > Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens
    > living in government-owned tenements and living off various
    > forms of government welfare..." Olson believes the
    > United States is now somewhere between the "complacency
    > and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition
    > of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's
    > population already having reached the "governmental
    > dependency" phase.
    >
    > If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty
    > million criminal invaders called illegal , and they vote,
    > then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.
    >


    Rugged ...what is your opinioin about this?
     
  20. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    Mark...if these stats are real it wouldn't supprise me...human nature what it is...most people won't work if there is a way not to...had a guy living accross from me back in the early 80s and his wife was on welfare and he was in the army at the same time...I guess the gvmt. had no checks in place at that time to catch him...all paper no computers.
     
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