Softener, No idea what it all does....

[SparkySteve73]

Thank you guys; The water is flowing 'almost-clear' now.... I'm going to do another regeneration.

The company I'm going to use for water tests charges $40 per test - should I test it tomorrow, or give it a few days.

Either way, we're not drinking the water at this stage.

 

[ditttohead]

Wait at least a couple weeks. Buy bottled water for a while.

Force the systems through a couple more regenerations over the next few days then let them operate normally for a month before doing any real testing.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[SparkySteve73]

Some more observations:

The 'rotten egg' smell has all but disappeared. A jar of water is still crystal clear after 90 minutes; In regards to the controller, the manual states:

In normal operation the Time Of Day display alternates with Volume Remaining display. As treated water is used, the Volume Remaining display counts down (in gallons) from a maximum value to zero or (----).

The time is displaying, but from the moment it came back online, the 'Volume remaining' has stayed at 1000 - I must have flushed at least 75+ gallons since then; Is this indicative of failure, bad setup, or perhaps something else?

Wait at least a couple weeks. Buy bottled water for a while.

Force the systems through a couple more regenerations over the next few days then let them operate normally for a month before doing any real testing.

That's the plan; Bought a few hundred bottles of water this morning before this all began; Unless I hear otherwise, I'll assume it's safe enough to shower and do dishes.

Thank you all for your help so far. It is very much appreciated.

 

[Reach4]

I do recommend putting a good amount of citric acid into the brine tank, and then regenerating the system. As soon as the water is empty from the brine tank, bypass the unit and unplug the power. Let the acidic water sit in the mineral tank for an hour.

How about the BIRM or Filox or whatever that iron filter is? There is no brine tank, so I am thinking maybe pull the controller, remove some water, and pour the citric acid into the media tank? Let marinate? Stir or something? While that is sitting, take the controller apart and clean, making sure to note how to put it back together?

 

[Bannerman]

The 2 units are regenerating right now.

So there is no confusion, both the filter backwash and the softener regeneration, should not be performed at the same time.

I had previously specified backwashing the filter first. The filter backwash would require the highest amount of water flow, perhaps even your well pump's entire capacity, thereby leaving little flow remaining to regenerate the softener at the same time. Once the filter backwash has completed, the water utilized to regenerate the softener will then be filtered.

 

[Bannerman]

the 'Volume remaining' has stayed at 1000 -

Is this indicative of failure, bad setup, or perhaps something else?

Are you referring to the filter controller?

I don't see a meter turbine or paddle wheel installed on the backside so that controller is most likely configured to backwash the media every x amount of days (ie: 3 days), regardless of the volume of water flowing through the filter.

 

[SparkySteve73]

So there is no confusion, both the filter backwash and the softener regeneration, should not be performed at the same time.

I had previously specified backwashing the filter first. The filter backwash would require the highest amount of water flow, perhaps even your well pump's entire capacity, thereby leaving little flow remaining to regenerate the softener at the same time. Once the filter backwash has completed, the water utilized to regenerate the softener will then be filtered.

Just me being inexact; They ran separately, not together.

I sat in the basement for the first softener regeneration.... Some 90+ minutes (I have a TV down there lol). The well pump went on a few times.

 

[SparkySteve73]

Are you referring to the filter controller?

I don't see a meter turbine or paddle wheel installed on the backside so that controller is most likely configured to backwash the media every x amount of days (ie: 3 days), regardless of the volume of water flowing through the filter.

I was referring to the softener controller; The manual says it flips between time-of-day and gallons remaining; It makes sense that if it doesnt have a meter turbine, that it would stay on 1,000. It's no big deal to me, if that seems the likely reason to you/others.

The filter (we assume iron at this point) was set to regenerate every 10 days; I have temporarily set that to 3 days, though I intend to do a manual every day.

The softener was set to every 5 days, and I've also set that to 3 days, and again, will be doing a manual regeneration at least daily; I had it do another regen last night as I went to bed; This morning there was a little cloud in the water - nothing like yesterday - not even close. And it took less than 3 minutes to clear.

 

[Reach4]

I was referring to the softener controller; The manual says it flips between time-of-day and gallons remaining; It makes sense that if it doesnt have a meter turbine, that it would stay on 1,000. It's no big deal to me, if that seems the likely reason to you/others.

I think it likely that the softener unit has a meter, but a signal the meter is not being detected. You could post a photo , taken from above, of the area next to the bypass.

 

[Bannerman]

Photo #10 seems to show a turbine located between the bypass and control valve on the softener as there is a cable directly from that location, routed into the controller.

Unless Steve is referring to Days Override when specifying the number of days between regeneration, it seems his softener might be currently programmed to regenerate based on days as opposed to quantity of water consumed.

 

[Bannerman]

The water is flowing 'almost-clear' now.... I'm going to do another regeneration.

Not all of the murkiness you observe is necessarily coming from the tanks. Your plumbing has been exposed to iron and hard water, at least for the 1 year you have resided there. I expect there will be some accumulation within the plumbing lines, which is now being slowly dissolved by iron free soft water.

Suggest connecting a garden hose to the spigot near the bottom of your water heater, to flush out any sediment.

Did you have any success identifying the equipment dealer or installer, so as to inquire if they recall the filter media contained?

 

[SparkySteve73]

Photo #10 seems to show a turbine located between the bypass and control valve on the softener as there is a cable directly from that location, routed into the controller.

Unless Steve is referring to Days Override when specifying the number of days between regeneration, it seems his softener might be currently programmed to regenerate based on days as opposed to quantity of water consumed.

The instructions say that during normal operation, the display will swap between the time-of-day, and the number of gallons remaining; It remains on 1000 gallons. It's really not high on my list of concerns

 

[SparkySteve73]

Not all of the murkiness you observe is necessarily coming from the tanks. Your plumbing has been exposed to iron and hard water, at least for the 1 year you have resided there. I expect there will be some accumulation within the plumbing lines, which is now being slowly dissolved by iron free soft water.

Suggest connecting a garden hose to the spigot near the bottom of your water heater, to flush out any sediment.

Did you have any success identifying the equipment dealer or installer, so as to inquire if they recall the filter media contained?

Just to clarify, we have lived in the house for about 16 months; the filters were simply on bypass.

I took the silver foil off, and a thin plastic (?) cover (held together with a plastic black strip) getting to the main tank, and there was nothing on it at all, so no, I've had no success. We have instant hot water from a dunkirk empire oil boiler, so nothing to flush out there.

 

[Bannerman]

With the filter and softener on Bypass, that signifies water was 'bypassing' those units, just as if they weren't there. Untreated water was flowing from your well, directly to your fixtures and appliances. Water contained within the filter and softener, was trapped for the entire time the Bypass valves were set to 'bypass'.

Not familiar with that boiler specifically. Does it only utilize a heat exchanger coil for domestic hot water or is there also a storage tank?

Water softeners equipped with a flow meter, are commonly programmed to regenerate only after a specific quantity of soft water has been delivered. The amount programmed between regen cycles is based on softener capacity, water hardness, salt dose and other factors. Time based regen is typically not as efficient as water utilized between regeneration cycles can vary greatly.

Suggest posting the softener settings currently programmed as we can review and make recommendations as appropriate. Include the BLFC number which is usually indicated on a label located near to the valve's brine line connection. BLFC is the brine tank refill rate which is utilized when programming the salt dose which directly relates to the softener capacity to be regenerated.

Also indicate the number of residents so as to calculate an appropriate reserve capacity setting.

Edit to add: The dealer or installer typically stick an identification label on the softener or filter as easy reference for service calls. Removing the tank's outer jacket should not be necessary. Your photos appear to show a label on one of the tank's upper jacket cover.

A dealer label is often affixed to the pressure tank or pump switch. Perhaps the well equipment dealer also supplied the water treatment equipment.

 

[Reach4]

Suggest posting the softener settings currently programmed as we can review and make recommendations as appropriate.

I looked at the service manual for the 5600SE. There are darned few things to set:

1. Current time
2. How many gallons to detect before scheduling the regen to happen tonight. So as I read it, the number would not include the reserve.
3. What time to regenerate.
4. Day override number.

SparkySteve73, unless you get your turbine meter working, you might sometimes want to schedule an early regeneration with the extra regeneration button. Poke it momentarily to regenerate at 2AM. Hold it 5 seconds to regenerate immediately.

 

[Bannerman]

There are darned few things to set:

Capacity, salt dose and system type would all need to be programmed as that valve is suitable for a range of sizes of softeners and filters.

 

[Reach4]

Capacity, salt dose and system type would all need to be programmed as that valve is suitable for a range of sizes of softeners and filters.

I understand. Maybe there is a mode that lets you change the timings. Maybe not. I am guessing that the timing is fixed, and the dose is totally determined by the choice of BLFC.

The manual does imply that the filter version is a different product from the softener version.

Capacity, hardness and reserve would be put into a calculation outside of the controller, and the single gallons number result would be entered into the controller.

 

[Bannerman]

I seem to recall, there is another menu of settings, normally only accessed by trained installers and dealers. The settings you listed in post #55, are those most relevant to an end user (resident) and likely the only changeable settings shown in a 'User Manual'.

The 'SE' controller predates the SXT controller. I don't have time to search right now but I recall, there is a specific button combination to press at the same time so as to access the other program settings.

Edit to add:
Enter Control Programming Mode
1. Push and hold for 5 seconds both the UP and DOWN keys to enter Programming Mode.
2. The first option display to appear is the Treated Water Capacity. To calculate the Treated Water Capacity, use the
following formula:
Unit Capacity in Grains (see Specifications - Page 1) ÷ water hardness (gpg) = gallons
gallons - (75 gallons x no. people in the house) = Treated Water Capacity
Example: 24,000 grain capacity unit, 20 gpg water hardness, 4 people in household
24,000 grains ÷ 20 gpg = 1,200 gallons
1,200 gallons - (75 gallons x 4) = 900 gallons
Set Treated Water Capacity to 900 gallons
3. Push the Extra Cycle button to advance to the second option setting. The setting that appears is the Regeneration
Time. Use the UP or DOWN keys to set the desired time of day for regeneration. The default setting is 2:00 A.M.
4. Push the Extra Cycle button. The third option setting display that appears is Regeneration Day Override. Use the
UP or DOWN keys to set the maximum days before a regeneration cycle must occur. The default is
{A--Off). This is an option only, please do not adjust before consulting an authorized dealer.
5. The Control Programming is now complete. Push the Extra Cycle button. This will exit the control from the
Programming Mode and resume to normal operation.

 

[SparkySteve73]

Good evening all,

By way of an update; I cannot believe almost a month has passed; I've had other issues (automotive & plumbing, the latter will be discussed elsewhere soon), so this all went down my list of things to do; That said:

1) No more eggy smell from the water
2) Water is running perfectly clear, and a mason jar of water is still clear after 24 hours.
3) The toilet & bathtub are starting to clean themselves - quite considerably so.
4) Looking at the programming, the units are already set to regenerate every 3 days - I'm thinking this is too often, and welcome input before I change it to 7 days or so.
5) Coliform bacteria test was NEGATIVE, and I have been drinking it without issues for almost a week

So, progress is most definitely being made, and I can't thank you all enough for your advice and input.

I am still going to try and get that 'meter' running to enable correct regeneration (currently set to regenerate every 1,000 gallons, but as previously mentioned, the counter isn't working).

Thanks again for your advice and participation....

 

[Reach4]

I am glad to hear the smell is gone.

I am still going to try and get that 'meter' running to enable correct regeneration (currently set to regenerate every 1,000 gallons, but as previously mentioned, the counter isn't working).

The turbine has a magnet inside that is turned by turbine wheel. That wire into the turbine assembly has a magnetic sensor. You should be able to pull that cable out, and make the softener detect flow by waving a magnet at the free end. The display has a Flow indicator -- an LED above the clock PM LED. You could see if that light flashes when you wave your magnet. If it does, there is a lot of stuff working. It could be the turbine has some debris stuck in its blades. If the magnet does not trigger the sensor, you might want to stay with a fixed schedule, but schedule an earlier regen if you detect the first signs of hardness leakage, or if company is coming for an overnight visit.

If the magnet does not cause an indication, the cable with the sensor could be bad. It could be a bad controller board. The cable assembly is Fleck 19791-01. It is reasonably priced. For a controller board, I expect that would be more expensive, unless you could canalize it.