Smell from kitchen island sink with "out" studor valve

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Richard Spackmann, May 23, 2019.

  1. Richard Spackmann

    Richard Spackmann New Member

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    New York
    All - hoping you all can shed some light on my dilemma.

    I have some smell coming from my kitchen island sink when I am only running water - and I'm pretty much convinced its coming from the sink and not the studor valve (under the sink smells fine).

    I attached some primitive pictures to try and illustrate how things are configured (I can try and get picture from under the cabinet itself if that will help).

    So the question is - why does the sink smell? did I not install the studor properly? Is the wye or the few 90s interfering with the operation of the AAV? Is there too much of a vertical drop that the trap is being siphoned?

    A couple of additional details:
    1. studor vent is pretty high in cabinet just above the bottom of the sink
    2. its not entirely plumb - it is "close" but I am starting to question how sensitive they are to being level?
    3. the drain coming out of the cabinet back has a slight upward pitch to it (it's nearly level)
    Hoping its some sort of obvious issue without having to redo the drain.

    Many thanks for all your help with this!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  2. WorthFlorida

    WorthFlorida The wife is still training me.

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    Real pictures would be better, if not;

    Is it only happening at this sink?
    When hot water or cold water only is used or doesn't matter.
    Is this a single or double bowl sink?
    Is there a garbage disposal?
    Have you opened the p-trap and cleaned it?
    Is the drain pipe PVC or galvanized steel?
    When did the odor start?
    Is there a dishwasher drain connection?

    If there is a garbage disposal, the grinding chamber it's more likely the source. Remove the rubber diaphragm and the odor may increase while not running the water.
    You can pour down a cup or two of bleach and let it sit a while? If there is a garbage disposal, run it a second or two to spread the bleach.
     
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  4. Richard Spackmann

    Richard Spackmann New Member

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    WorthFlorida - thanks for the reply - answers in red.

    Is it only happening at this sink? The smell is only at this sink and doesn't matter hot or cold water.
    When hot water or cold water only is used or doesn't matter. doesn't matter
    Is this a single or double bowl sink? It's only a single small stainless steel sink
    Is there a garbage disposal? no garbage disposal
    Have you opened the p-trap and cleaned it? not yet...but did put drain-o in this week (see below)
    Is the drain pipe PVC or galvanized steel? PVC
    When did the odor start? intermittent for a few months now - but seems fairly regular now (maybe we are just sensitive to it)
    Is there a dishwasher drain connection? no dishwasher

    This week I put some drain-o in the sink to try and clean anything out, so I'm not thinking I need to put any bleach?

    I totally forgot to mention another key piece of information (I updated the original post), the drain coming out of cabinet wall is slightly upward (almost level), but the sink drains well - but this may be a symptom?

    I'll try and get a pic...
     
  5. WorthFlorida

    WorthFlorida The wife is still training me.

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    Obviously water doesn't flow uphill and it will allow more water and crud to lay in the pipe and trap. When you remove the p-trap it should be full of water. Do you hear any gurgling whereby the trap is being siphoned dry? It could be the pitch is allowing the water to flow too slow and the AAV is not opening thus water is being siphoned out of the trap? Just guess for now.

    I also have an island sink with a AAV, disposal and dishwasher. Never had an issue.
     
  6. Richard Spackmann

    Richard Spackmann New Member

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    WorthFlorida - of course, as I said, its slight and a short run, and the water never drains poorly. I'll pull the p-trap and take a look and see if I can get a picture.
     
  7. OLD TIMER

    OLD TIMER Member

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    The AAV,s go bad. I changed one the other day.
     
  8. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    What is the smell? Chemical? Decomposition?

    If you close the stopper on the sink, and add some water, is the smell blocked?
     
  9. Richard Spackmann

    Richard Spackmann New Member

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    @Reach4 - it smells like septic - yes, the smell does not exist after filling up the sink with water. I'm about to pull the trap and have a look - I'll post back with progress
     
  10. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    The way you show the piping, you have pretty much negated ANY BENEFITS from the Studor vent and have installed a "perfect" "S" trap which will usually ALWAYS siphon and smell.
     
  11. Richard Spackmann

    Richard Spackmann New Member

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  12. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

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    Post a couple photos of the drain and vent piping and then we might be able to tell you how to fix it.
     
  13. Richard Spackmann

    Richard Spackmann New Member

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    pictures of the piping under the sink - you'll see the right elbow coming out from the sink back going vertical and the AAV installed on top of that pipe to the right of the sink drain
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    IMG_5.jpg
    Your AAV is not hooked up properly. HJ figured it out. Too, me a while.

    Your AAV needs to hook up at the level of the trap arm or above.

    If you post a photo of the backside, somebody may offer a way to fix this more easily.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  15. Richard Spackmann

    Richard Spackmann New Member

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    @Reach4 - I think I see what you are saying, I installed it with the wye lower than the p-trap to prevent siphoning the drain - are you saying that's the very behavior I ended up creating?
     
  16. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. You want the vent to be able to supply air to the trap arm to spoil the vacuum.
     
  17. Richard Spackmann

    Richard Spackmann New Member

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  18. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. That would be one of the right ways.
     
  19. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks HJ, I've been busy this week, and this is the perfect response. He should add an AAV on the trap arm between the p-trap and the wall. The existing AAV is doing nothing.
     
  20. Richard Spackmann

    Richard Spackmann New Member

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    I modified the plumbing in the manner illustrated by @Terry and so far everything smells great - and I think it drains faster too! (which would make sense). Thanks everyone for the help!
     
  21. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    quote; I think it drains faster too!

    Actually, it might have drained faster the old way. Improper venting CAN cause drains to drain faster since gravity is helping if there is nothing to break the siphon.
     
    Sylvan likes this.
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