Shallow Well Pump / Piping / Tank for New Build

[Bubba]

I'm building a new house in a rural area, and would appreciate some help with recommended pump, CSV, pressure tank, etc.. I'm sold on the CSV concept, but not sure about best pump and sizing. I want to put in the best system for good pressure, water quality, and the absolute least maintenance issues going forward.

- Shallow well has been dug and 36" I.S. diameter vertical "casing" installed
- 5' deep water in the well casing
- TOP of water in the well casing is 20' below level of future CSV valve and pressure tank
- 2nd/3rd storey fixtures could be an additional 15'-20' above CSV valve and pressure tank
- Distance from well casing to house inlet is approx. 250'
- Plan to set submersible pump vertically at bottom of well casing, so pump intake will be approx. 3.5' below top of water level (23.5' below future CSV valve)
- So 3.5' pumpable water x 3' I.S. diamater = 185 US Gal. water storage
- Measured recovery rate of well = 7-8 US gpm
- Planning on 1-1/4" (not 1") HD polyethylene (165 psi?) pipe from pump to house because of 250' distance
- House ~ 2,000 sq.ft., 4 bedrooms, 2-1/2 baths
- Peak Demand = 14 gpm? (based on charts on Cycle Stop website, etc.)
- Total daily water requirements = 300+ US gal. per day

Would like to use a submersible pump with flow inducer sleeve, CSV valve, and small pressure tank. CSV valve and pressure tank will be located in conditioned basement of the new house.

Based on word-of-mouth from neighbors, it's highly likely I will need some sort of hydrogen peroxide and carbon filter system to take care of sulphur smell and possibly iron content. I haven't had detailed water analysis yet, but I'm sure there will be some sort of filter system added to the system.

1.) Do you agree with my planned 1-1/4" HDPE pipe size, or do you recommend something different?
2.) Do you agree with my Peak Demand 14 gpm assumption?
3.) Do I want 10 gpm pump, or 15 gpm pump, or something different?
4.) Do I want 3/4 hp (because of distance), or bigger or smaller?
5.) Do I want 2 wire or 3 wire pump with CSV valve? (I'm assuming 1 phase, 230 volt)
6.) Meyers pumps have a good reputation around here, but I'm in no way partial to them. I looked at the Meyers "Predator Plus" series (their best I think), for example #2ST72-15PLUS-P4, 15 gpm 3/4 hp. Or do you recommend Grundfoss instead?
7.) From what I've read on the Cycle Stop website, I think I need the CSV1A valve with 10 US Gal. pressure tank.
8.) Do I want to set CSV desired pressure at 60 psi (pressure switch 50/70) or higher?
9.) I notice the 10 gal. pressure tank is factory pressurized to 35 psi. Can this be changed to 60 psi?

Thank you

 

[Reach4]

1.) Do you agree with my planned 1-1/4" HDPE pipe size, or do you recommend something different?

Works. 1 inch is probably adequate, but the cost difference for 1-1/4 is minimal.

2.) Do you agree with my Peak Demand 14 gpm assumption?

No, not unless your irrigation needs it. 7 to 10 is usually good for a house, even a large hours. A 1/2 HP 10 gpm pump would be right.

4.) Do I want 3/4 hp (because of distance), or bigger or smaller?

1/2 hp due to the low rise. Your friction loss will be low. Look at the 20 ft and 40 ft columns in the tables, and maybe average the numbers to get 3o ft.

5.) Do I want 2 wire or 3 wire pump with CSV valve? (I'm assuming 1 phase, 230 volt)

Either works fine.

.) I notice the 10 gal. pressure tank is factory pressurized to 35 psi. Can this be changed to 60 psi?

Yes, but with 50/70, the precharge should be no higher than 48.

How high is the water below ground? How will you protect the pipes from freezing?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

If the CSV is located at the floor level in a basement that is 7' below grade, then it sounds as though the well is 32' deep from surface, and the static water level is 27' from surface.

Since pressure will change 1 psi for each 2.31' vertical rise, if the CSV is calibrated to deliver 60 psi, then with an anticipated 20' vertical rise to 3rd story fixtures, you would expect ~ 51.3 psi @ upper level fixtures. There will be some additional pressure loss due to flow restriction depending on piping diameter, pipe type, distance, configuration and flow rate.

 

[Bubba]

Works. 1 inch is probably adequate, but the cost difference for 1-1/4 is minimal.

No, not unless your irrigation needs it. 7 to 10 is usually good for a house, even a large hours. A 1/2 HP 10 gpm pump would be right.


1/2 hp due to the low rise. Your friction loss will be low. Look at the 20 ft and 40 ft columns in the tables, and maybe average the numbers to get 3o ft.

Either works fine.

Yes, but with 50/70, the precharge should be no higher than 48.

How high is the water below ground? How will you protect the pipes from freezing?

Top of water in the well is 8' below grade at the well. But grade at the house is another 7' uphill. I forgot to mention it will be a walkout basement, so consider basement slab at this same elevation (15' above well water level). I'm assuming CSV and pressure tank will be mounted approx. 5' above basement slab.
I plan on trenching the 1-1/4" pipe 4' below grade from the well to the house, with 2" blue board XPS insulation on top of the pipe before burying. Our frost can go down 5'-6' in this area. Then come up through the basement slab.

 

[Reach4]

Will you insert a pitless adapter pipe through the casing below the frost line?

You can mount a pitless adapter on a stainless steel pipe that goes through the wall below the frost line.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/bored-well-total-equipment-replacement.80705/

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....o-greenhouse-through-unheated-building.69681/ #12

 

[Valveman]

The PK1A with a 10 gallon tank and a 50/70 pressure switch will work fine for that system. I don't see a 15 GPM series Myers? But the 12 GPM, 3/4HP would work. You might also consider the 1HP, 33 GPM, Hallmark because of the price of 150 bucks. It will build as much pressure as you need and even though it is a 33 GPM pump the CSV will make it into any size you need down to 1 GPM.

230 volt is best. 2 wire is fine. 3 wire is ok as well but needs a control box.

 

[Bubba]

The PK1A with a 10 gallon tank and a 50/70 pressure switch will work fine for that system. I don't see a 15 GPM series Myers? But the 12 GPM, 3/4HP would work. You might also consider the 1HP, 33 GPM, Hallmark because of the price of 150 bucks. It will build as much pressure as you need and even though it is a 33 GPM pump the CSV will make it into any size you need down to 1 GPM.

230 volt is best. 2 wire is fine. 3 wire is ok as well but needs a control box.

OK thanks!

I've attached a link to the Pentair/Myers "Predator Plus" series of pumps https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/nam/myers/data-sheets/m9108ws-predator-series-ds.pdf, which includes the 15 gpm model.

If I have the choice, is 12 gpm or 15 gpm preferred? Also, it seems you would prefer to see a 1 hp on this system?

If I put a 33 gpm pump on the system, isn't there a bigger risk of running the well dry (if everything was turned on at the same time for example)?

Also, in your experience is the Grundfos better with the CSV valve than Meyers? In many posts you seem to prefer Grundfos pumps.

 

[Bubba]

Will you insert a pitless adapter pipe through the casing below the frost line?

You can mount a pitless adapter on a stainless steel pipe that goes through the wall below the frost line.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/bored-well-total-equipment-replacement.80705/

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....o-greenhouse-through-unheated-building.69681/ #12

@Reach4
Yes, I was intending to use some sort of pitless adapter, but I wasn't sure how I was going to attach it to the 36" HDPE (polyethylene) culvert. It's smooth walled on the inside, but I'm concerned about the start/stop vibration and keeping a secure attachment without wearing out the plastic.

Hmmm... just reading up on flow inducer sleeves. If I understand correctly, I will have to raise the entire pump assembly probably another 1' off the bottom of the well if I use a flow inducer sleeve. So even less useable water storage.
Anyone have any idea how much motor life is reduced if you don't use a flow inducer sleeve, or if you lay the submersible on its side instead of vertically?

 

[Bannerman]

how much motor life is reduced if you don't use a flow inducer sleeve, or if you lay the submersible on its side instead of vertically?

An inducer sleeve is commonly fabricated from a section of 4" plastic water pipe that is gear clamped and taped to the pump above the inlet screen so water enters through the open bottom which will ensure the electric motor at the bottom will be sufficiently cooled.

An inducer sleeve will be particularly important in a large diameter well as water will be mostly drawn from the height of the pump's inlet screen so there will be little water drawn across the motor. Regardless of whether an inducer screen is utilized or not, the inlet screen location for most submersible pumps is approx at the midpoint of the pump's length, so with a vertical installation, the pump inlet will be approx 1' above the bottom of the well even while the pump is resting on the bottom. When the inside dimension of a well casing or cistern tank permits, a submersible pump is often laid on its side, allowing it to draw from closer to the bottom.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....-for-a-aquaculture-project.74775/#post-550828. See post #8

 

[Reach4]

Yes, I was intending to use some sort of pitless adapter, but I wasn't sure how I was going to attach it to the 36" HDPE (polyethylene) culvert. It's smooth walled on the inside, but I'm concerned about the start/stop vibration and keeping a secure attachment without wearing out the plastic.

I see the problem. The PE may not be strong enough to hold things. I am wondering about using a stainless nipple, and encasing that nipple in mortar that extends to undisturbed ground. I was also wondering about some kind of reinforcement plate on the outside of the casing, and thereby spreading the forces. Maybe a giant stainless or brass washer with mortar to conform to the ribs and curvature outside of the casing. I have no relevant experience, so just thinking.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/pump_in_tank_0-png.52649/ illustrates a pump mounted horizontally in a tank. This might need a guy line and/or foot for support.

 

[Bannerman]

Post #8 of the link provided, shows a method for placing a submersible on a lake or cistern bottom. As 2 pieces of plastic pipe are utilized as a base to raise the pump off the bottom, if this method was used in your large diameter well, the weight of the pump would not be supported by a pitless adaptor or by the walls of the PE well casing.

The only item missing from the example photo is a flow inducer sleeve which may be easily added.

 

[Bubba]

@Reach4
Yes, I was intending to use some sort of pitless adapter, but I wasn't sure how I was going to attach it to the 36" HDPE (polyethylene) culvert. It's smooth walled on the inside, but I'm concerned about the start/stop vibration and keeping a secure attachment without wearing out the plastic.

Post #8 of the link provided, shows a method for placing a submersible on a lake or cistern bottom. As 2 pieces of plastic pipe are utilized as a base to raise the pump off the bottom, if this method was used in your large diameter well, the weight of the pump would not be supported by a pitless adaptor or by the walls of the PE well casing.

The only item missing from the example photo is a flow inducer sleeve which may be easily added.

Great, thanks!

After reading the most recent SP and SQ pump "Data Booklet" downloaded from the Grundfos USA website, they state that their submersibles can be used either vertically or horizontally.