Removing asbestos-covered pipes

Discussion in 'HVAC Heating & Cooling' started by holybuzz, Oct 8, 2008.

  1. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    Jim,

    Just so you totally understand what I am saying here, I would never had thought of dentists.

    Then, I read what you wrote and knew this was right.

    So, my dear friend, because of you, my dentist is voluntarily using monitors, and Jim, if one person comes through there like my Tim, you saved his life.

    For the doctors, dentists, medical pro's who won't voluntarily do what is right and neccessary, like taking all the vitals, not just ht, wt and temp; they will be breaking the law. If they think this law is not right, they need to explain why they think this.

    If 90% of the medical field, doctors, take all the vitals that still leaves 10% of the people at a loss. Maybe, a loss of life.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2008
  2. billeesy

    billeesy New Member

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    I know this thread is very old, but I would like to put my two cents in. Firstly, it is not illegal to remove asbestos from your own home. It is only illegal to hire someone who does not have a license to remove asbestos. You can do whatever you want to your own home without a license.

    Okay secondly, I have a home with a gravity furnace, in which the ducts in my basement are wrapped in asbestos. I have had quotes from Heating and cooling companies to remove the asbestos and install a furnace starting @ $5500. On the other hand if I didnt have the asbestos in my basement I could have a brand new furnace installed for $600, including removal of the old one. In these economic times, I cannot afford $5500. I cannot afford the $400-$550 a month energy bills I have because of the un-efficient gravity furnace either. I am in the same situation of the poster of this thread. I am going to have to take on this by myself. NO IT IS NOT ILLEGAL. My city home inspector told me that when I bought the house 8 years ago. I plan on cutting the ducts before where the asbestos starts, after wetting them. Put the whole duct (6-7 foot long) in a bag. Take the bag outside where I will put in another bag, and duct tape the bags closed. I will properly dispose of them. In my area there are many waste management companies that will take asbestos for little or no fee. Then I will demolish the beast of a furnace that its my basement and install a new one, in which I will need a permit for to have it installed.
     
  3. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    Asbestos abatement services can be expensive, but they are a small fraction of the cost of medical treatments for mesothelioma and asbestosis. You may also wish to look at your homeowner’s insurance; sometimes the costs of asbestos abatement are covered in whole or part under such policies. Removing asbestos is a difficult, uncomfortable and strenuous job, and requires many serious precautions. In addition, if you attempt to remove it yourself, you are legally liable for any injuries that may occur as a result. Not to forget to mention, your insurance company will monitor your air-quality as well. It is a win-win situation. I would check my policy.
     
  4. dlarrivee

    dlarrivee New Member

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    Stop trying to scare people.

    Having Asbestos in your home doesn't mean you're going to get mesothelioma or asbestosis, even removing it doesn't mean you will.

    It's a long term exposure thing, you'd have to be working with the stuff and disturbing it daily to actually get sick.
     
  5. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    My God, no one is trying to scare anyone! You can safely have it removed, and lessen any concerns or worries and have it paid for by your homeowners! It is not that hard to understand. There are safety concerns with it. Maybe, your homeowners there in Canada would not cover it, but here in the US, they do! That is why at least here, you pay for insurance! USE IT.

    AND, if the crap is hanging in your house, by a furnace, it is getting into the air. PAINT it all your want. YOU and your family ARE breathing it.

    You have to understand how long that stuff was there and how much has already gotten into the air. It is horrible stuff.

    IT IS FACTS.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2011
  6. njwarren

    njwarren New Member

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    This was a great forum, and hilarious. (Is nhmaster still alive or did he die from legal asbestos exposure?) I have reseached this issue with a house i just purchased and spoke to my inspector at the building dept. It is not ILLEGAL to remove from your house. Follow the procedures in what your given and dont eat it and you will be fine. The county i live in have hazardous drop off twice a year including asbestos. Again not ILLEGAL.
     
  7. holybuzz

    holybuzz Member

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    Wow!

    I'm the guy who started this thread. So, depending on your point of view, I'm either just some average dude or I am everything that is wrong with this country.

    Here's what I found out. Where I live it is OK for homeowners to remove their own asbestos. I triple-checked this. It is so. Where I live. YMMV. Also, if you want to you can remove it with sandpaper and sprinkle the bits on the pillows of your loved ones. Not a great idea if you love your family. Instead, you should probably spray it down with water or paint it (carefully, slowly) and put it into bags, taking all of the other precautions/measures mentioned throughout this thread: P100 (not p95) respirator, gloves, suit, plastic sheeting, sealing the area, etc. (See the full thread and take notes if you are thinking about doing this in your home.)

    It seems that the biggest issue, regulation-wise, is disposal. My local landfill accepts asbestos pipe insulation if you double bag it in 6mil poly bags and call the landfill ahead of time. No charge. For the record, I live in NY state. But the regs can be county to county, city to city, etc. Check your locality.

    I researched this tons more after I posted on this thread. Tons. The upshot is that, yeah, asbestos is bad stuff, but that its rep is mostly linked to the era in which its nastiness was discovered. IOW, the tough regs are what they are in part because at that time the country was hypervigilant about environmental disease, etc. Which isn't to say that the regs are an over-reaction. If people are cavalier about this stuff, especially in their homes, the long-term consequences could be dire. But if you take all necessary precautions—copying the methods that the pros use—you will be OK. In fact (and this part is just my opinion), because houses move all the time, leaving this stuff in place is probably much much worse than carefully removing it.

    And finally, when I asked a licensed contractor to come look at my place and give me a quote, he did a little test to see if the stuff was really asbestos. What was the test? He took a pocket knife, cut into the pipe covering, then flicked it a bit of it in the air. Needless to say, I immediately questioned the asbestos abatement licensing requirements. I could have hired him and blissfully assumed that he was doing all the right things. I didn't. Instead, I researched the hell out of this and went ahead and did it myself. Years later I'm still running marathons and breathing easy.
     
  8. BadgerBoilerMN

    BadgerBoilerMN Hydronic Heating Designer

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    Weather it is wise or not, the fact remains that asbestos abatement is not a DIY job. We know asbestos and have licensed professionals remove miles of pipe in our boiler replacement business. To do otherwise would leave us open for legal action and consumer protection laws are leaning on knowing DIYers as well. Sell a house, take the blame.
     
  9. rfd

    rfd New Member

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    no, sorry - it IS a DIY, as long as YOU know Exactly what yer doing and realize the consequences of screwing up. not a job for everyone, or maybe most people, but absolutely a DIY for at least some folks. as a pro, and making a blanket statement that asbestos abatement is a non-DIY project is totally self serving. your post is typical of all the contractor's posts in this thread, and why not - it's at least in the sphere of things that you do for a living. it's one thing to yield accurate facts and another to employ scare marketing. too much greed and power and profit mongering, too many idiotic laws, far too much government, and we're all going to hell in an asbestos hand basket. yeesh. lemme go kiss my basement asbestos pipes.
     
  10. BadgerBoilerMN

    BadgerBoilerMN Hydronic Heating Designer

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    I agree. Too much EPA.

    The rest is DIY foolishness. I don't abate. I pay an EPA stooge and most smart people do the same. Your uncle Bob is not qualified and if you are smart enough to do asbestos abatement without professional help, you don't need to ask for permission.

    The impetus for all these regulations is not so much a health issue. It is not the EPA than really gives it teeth but the ambulance chasers that make it very painful to make a mistake.

    Whether this is a DIY job is a matter of judgement. I don't take advice from anonymous sources and would advise others to do due diligence. Just a little experienced advice...for free!

    Merry Christmas
     
  11. dw85745

    dw85745 Member

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    I got involved in asbestos abatement in the late 1980's.
    As I recall there are two type of asbestos to deal with. The first they call fryable. This is the type that may become airborne -- like that around your pipes -- and is the one to be most concerned with. The second type is non-fryable. This is asbestos suspended in some hard material such as cement board or tile. As long as you don't break the board or tile the asbestos is contained and will not become airborne.

    The most important thing you need is a good respirator. Discuss which one with your local Safety Supply Store.
    The next is a disposable suit with booties and a hood. This will be thrown away when done. Again your local Safety Supply should carry. They run about $5.00 apiece.
    Lastly, a good pair of chemical googles so you don't get anything in your eyes.
    For fryable asbestos -- pipe covering -- buy yourself a pump up sprayer and make a soap and water solution.
    You also need a number of large black heavy mil trash bags.

    If removing fryable pipe wrap from the basement, cover the walls and floor with a good mill painters plastic. Where you exit the basement you need a plastic door. that is integral or
    taped to the wall plastic. A helper -- with protective gear will remain outside the plastic door.

    Now spray -- saturate -- the asbestos covering the pipes.
    With a second helper, as you are removing the asbestos from the pipes have the helper spray it so it will not become airborne and place it gently as possible into the trash bag. Once in the bag, spray it again. The KEY here is to keep it saturated so any asbestos does NOT become ariborne. Once a bag is about 1/2 to 3/4 full close it up -- twist or zip ties -- and hand it to -- through the plastic door -- the helper outside the plastic door who will carry it outside.

    I would recommend doing the entire basement in one attempt. If a big job, I'd recommend a diaper.

    After all asbestos is removed, gently take down the wall plastic place in a trash bag and set the bag aside. Lastly, roll up the floor plastic from its edge toward you.
    When you are at almost done, step into a trash bag that you place outside the roll of floor plastic. Finish rolling up the floor plastic and place in a trash bag.
    Strip off your disposable suit so it remains in the bag keeping your respirator on.
    Step out of the bag, seal it, and you can then remove your respirator.

    It is a normal practice to have air sampling monitors, that monitor the air both during and after the job to verify there is No airborne asbestos. The monitors are taken to a lab for evaluation.

    The trash bags with the asbesstos can normally be taken to the local dump -- don't put in your trash can. Check with the local dump to see if / how they want the bags disposed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
  12. dw85745

    dw85745 Member

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    To BadgerBoilerMN re:

    I hardly disagree. If one looks to previous years when cities were discharging sewage into the lakes and rivers without any treatment (the cities water intake was always on the upstream side of their sewage discharge so the next city had to deal with it), think of where we would be at today without the EPA. The same goes for air quality. Ever been around a old cement plant before the EPA. Ever seen the after effects of someone who's breathed in cement dust.
    Before EPA, industry did a lot of cost shifting. That is instead of pricing into their product the actual cost including cleanup, they pushed this cost to the consumer through contaminated water, soil, and air. It's a lot better than it used to be, but still a lot of issues such as the pig farms in the Carolinas or the pesticide runoff from farmers. Environmental cost shifting still occurs and some industries say its NOT needed, but from a health and welfare perspective I wish EPA could do more.
     
  13. BadgerBoilerMN

    BadgerBoilerMN Hydronic Heating Designer

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    Minneapolis
    This from a guy who advocates DIY asbestos abatement; but misspells "friable"? Obviously there is something to asbestos abatement beyond the laymen's, "I watched a guy do it once", rendition.

    http://www.hwma.net/sites/default/files/friable_vs_non-friable_asbestos_0.pdf


    EPA; too much of a good thing, more especially when they are getting set up to regulate CO2 emissions.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_v._Environmental_Protection_Agency

    Serious DIY asbestos removal fans can peruse this site at their leisure...

    https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/asbestos/construction.html
     
  14. dw85745

    dw85745 Member

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    Tucson, Arizona
    BadgerBoilerMN:


    Re:

    Not advocating anything. Just telling OP how we did it back in the early 1980's. Not a hard job, just have to use common sense and
    make sure you have good protection. OP then has to determine for himself whether he's capable.

    Your correct. I misspelled it.

    Last asbestos job I was responsible for was the clearing of a warehouse the size of city block. We took out three tractor trailers of the stuff.
    One was of friable bags.

    Your link to OSHA is a great source for the OP.

    If your 608 certified -- which I assume you are --and if my recollection is correct, CO2 has the same impact as Chlorine in HCFC's on the atmosphere -- holes.

    Didn't mean to upset you with my comments on EPA.
    Just, IMHO, industry, a lot of times, takes advantage of the working guy because he needs to be employed, overlooking the long term consequences -- both direct and indirect - in the pursuit of profit. If these costs were priced into the product, then that cost would be distributed to those using the product, rather than being cost shifted to all of us.
    What's scary is that all DOD and GoCo facilities are exempt from EPA requirements-- at least used to be before I retired -- can't say for sure now.
    The amount of water and soil contamination that exists and will have to be cleaned up is enormous. A bunch of Love Canals.
    Near here in South Tucson, Hughes operated in a GoCo plant and ended up contaminating over many years the City Water Supply.
    A number people ended up with cancer because of it.

    Happy Holidays to You and your family.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
  15. BadgerBoilerMN

    BadgerBoilerMN Hydronic Heating Designer

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
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    hydronic heating designer/contractor
    Location:
    Minneapolis
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