Removing asbestos-covered pipes

Discussion in 'HVAC Heating & Cooling' started by holybuzz, Oct 8, 2008.

  1. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    Stocking fillers?

    Asbestos and talc

    Talc is sometimes contaminated with asbestos.[50] In 2000, tests in a certified asbestos-testing laboratory found the tremolite form of amphibole asbestos in three out of eight major brands of children's crayons (oil pastels) that are made partly from talc — Crayola, Prang, and Rose Art.[51] In Crayola crayons, the tests found asbestos levels from 0.05% in Carnation Pink to 2.86% in Orchid; in Prang crayons, the range was from 0.3% in Periwinkle to 0.54% in Yellow; in Rose Art crayons, it was from 0.03% in Brown to 1.20% in Orange. Overall, 32 different types of crayons from these brands contained more than trace amounts of asbestos, and eight others contained trace amounts. The Art and Creative Materials Institute, a trade association which tests the safety of crayons on behalf of the makers, initially insisted the test results must be incorrect, although they later said they do not test for asbestos.[51] In May 2000, Crayola said tests by materials analyst, Richard Lee, of two of its crayons were negative for asbestos, although it later emerged that Lee had testified in lawsuits over 250 times on behalf of the asbestos industry, which paid him US$7 million.[52] In June 2000, Binney & Smith, the maker of Crayola, and the other makers agreed to stop using talc in their products, and changed their product formulations in the United States.[52] The mining company, R T Vanderbilt Co of Gouverneur, New York, which supplied the talc to the crayon makers, insists there is no asbestos in its talc "to the best of our knowledge and belief",[53] but tests by the United States Mine Safety and Health Administration found asbestos in all four talc samples that it tested in 2000


    I guess a lead pencil would do.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008
  2. xroad

    xroad New Member

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    Hair brain idea of removal, I think not. Like Cookie said, not much different from what the pros do. Common sense guides us.

    I made no judgement on the original poster. I try to stick to the question, how to get it off the pipe. He dis not ask about paper trails, legal process, etc. My town & non of the surrounding town, here in central Jersey, and probably the entire NJ, and towns in CT ever ask about what happened to the abestos on those pipes in the house built 80 years ago. The house is sold and purchased. If we don't give a crap, you would see more comments like "take a hammer ....".

    Laws ..... Slavery was legal at one time. Then there was WW2 Germany ..... There were some not very popular law either. Don't get your panties all in a bunch. I am not saying the current abestos laws, rule, guideline is as bad as the above.
     
  3. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    I showed a house yesterday where I could smell all of the asbestos, it could had been the dead animals, but I am pretty sure about the asbestos. It was just about everywhere, on every pipe, I think I saw it dripping off the walls, wait... I am thinking of the Amityville Horror movie. :D Actually, this house was not far off.

    While in the basement I pointed out what I thought was the obvious which was, the posts were rotted away, and the jack was rusted out, as well. I thought I felt that dip in the floor above, lol. I no sooner pointed this out than the man leaned on it, and it fell over. I was done. When floor jacks start to fall over I am outa of there.

    I headed back upstairs leaving him down there. ;)
    I was outside on the porch heading for the car fixing my GPS.

    I said to him, " well, is this too much of a fixer upper?" I was expecting a resounding, yes, but instead, he said, " nope." Some people can be brain dead...so, I said, " ok."

    Since, the basement was loaded with asbestos and I know the value dollar amount in removing it, even if I pass the job onto my cousin; when he said, " it won't cost much to fix this up" I knew, he was going to get that big hammer out and whack those pipes out on his own. Probably, not even using so much a plastic baggie.

    Unless, his idea of what is costly doesn't fit my idea. We will see.
     
  4. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

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    I give up. I can not inteligently argue with equivocation and justification. Apparently no one can read. Laws are not made to be broken. The guy that came up with that sentence was most likely a crook. Laws are made to protect the largest number of people from harm. Every day I deal with kids that think the school rules are stupid and should be broken. We have rules about MP3 players, clothing and the wearing of hats, along with swearing and disrespectfull behavior and a multitude of others that were put in place to keep the scholastic community a safe and respectfull place to learn in. Which rule or rules should I decided are stupid or better yet let the kids decide? How about the drugs and alchohol rules? It's bad enough to hear the justification and equivocation from a 15 year old but to hear it from adults is just plain intolerable. Let the lawyers sort it all out. I'm done.
     
  5. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

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    One more note. The original poster asked how to do something that is illegal just so he could save a few bucks. Why not start a how to build fertilizer bombs thread also? Why would anyone even consider answering his question?
     
  6. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    By challenging laws we can improve society on the whole. Throughout history it has been done. Ever hear of the Boston Tea Party? The biggest thing an individual can do is to think for himself. The best thing to teach a student ( I am a teacher with all the credentials and have a masters in education, and MS) is to use his mind. The second is to have a sense of humor. (I have a PhD in that) :D

    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. And, that sometimes, leads to destructive measures.

    To ask questions is all part of the learning process and so is to challenge, the only crime is not to ask them. Maybe, that is philosophical but, I love Socrates.

    You would be surprised to learn with less rigid rules how well society and kids do. Censorship is not a good thing, remember Hitler and his book burning?

    Freedom is priceless.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008
  7. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

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    There are legal ways to challange laws.
     
  8. xroad

    xroad New Member

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    Don't jump down my throat, I am about to rip the tags off my mattress. :D

    hnmaster, please don't get too frustrated. I for one appreciate your opinion and we all can learn from you and others. There is no guarentee that people will always do the right thing. I think most of us live in the fuzzy area NEAR the "do the right thing" side. We are not here to be the police. That is someone else's job. We can share knowledge here.
     
  9. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

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    As far as removing and disposing of asbestos goes, what knowledge other than get a licensed abatement contractor, would be of any possible use?
     
  10. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    As much as you might not like the truth, people are going to remove it theirselves, the reason why doesn't matter; what does matter is to teach them to do it safely. Even the pros will tell you that.

    This reason matters... so, in the event anyone who comes in contact with the house (no matter who is the present or future owner) won't breathe in fibers. That could be plumbers, kids, furnace repairmen, painters, etc, you get my idea, right?

    Sometimes you just can't be righteous it serves no useful purpose.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008
  11. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    "Every law is an infraction of liberty." ~ Jeremy Antisthenes
    Can any of you seriously say the Bill of Rights could get through Congress today? It wouldn't even get out of committee. ~ F. Lee Bailey

    Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. ~ Abraham Lincoln

    Laws were made to be broken. ~ Christopher North

    Even when laws have been written down, they ought not always to remain unaltered. ~ Aristotle

    The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer. ~ Henry Kissinger

    Christopher North:

    1785 - Born on May 18th in Glasgow. His best-known work is in the Noctes Ambrosianae, an occasional discursive feature of Blackwood's to which he contributed the majority of the articles.

    1812 - He published, The Isle of Palms, followed four years later by The City of the Plague, which gained for him a recognize place in literature, though they did not show his most characteristic gifts, and are now almost unread.

    1817 - Among the first contributors to Blackwood's Magazine, he joined the staff and quickly became one of its chief critical writers.

    1820 - He became a Professor of Moral Philosophy in the University of Edinburgh where, though not much of a philosopher in the technical sense, he exercised a highly stimulating influence upon his students by his eloquence and the general vigor of his intellect.

    1851 - Wilson received a Government pension of £300. The following year a paralytic seizure led to his resignation of his professorial chair.

    1854 - Wilson died on April 3rd in Edinburgh.

    He was seriously, not a crook.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2008
  12. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

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    See where all that get's you when the lawsuits fly. If this guy, removes and disposes of the asbestos himself and someone gets wind of it the lawyers are going to eat him for dinner.
     
  13. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    If you were aware of all the illegal things going on around us you might never get out of bed.

    The fact that it is a law does not make it Constitutional, and if it is not, it is not is not a law. Does any one know if it is?

    Have you ever cut across a double yellow line to turn to a store...you just broke the law. How about walking across a street not being in a cross walk? People break the law all the time. This guy is making a calculated decision and will have to take what ever comes from it...good or bad...personaly I would do the same thing if I were in his shoes.:eek:

    If I had it in my house and didn't want my family breathing it and didn't have the $$$ to remove it I would ask questions find out what the procedures were to remove it, copy them as best as I could and out it would go...

    OH well...What ya gona do...

    JUST FYI according to the asbestos laws

    Asbestos can only be disposed of in an approved asbestos land fill and that is where he may get caught.

    Personally I would use the floor wax or at least a shellac based paint as an encapsulant. Wetting it will allow the loose fibers to flow with the water. That could cause a problem down the road.
     
  14. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

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    I give up.
     
  15. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    Actually, I have a law going to Congress. Right now the bill is being written by 2 Washington Lawyers and one Grad student. This law will prevent needless deaths from undiagnosed high blood pressure. It is going to mandate doctors take everytime, at every visit, all vitals. The numbers will change in, a) how many people succumb to a sudden heart attack and b) how many people actually have hypertension.

    I am a firm believer of changing things when something is not right, I can teach and do. Here is a picture of my phone when the Capitol called. :)
    I never want what happened to my husband happen to anyone else. So, if you don't fall over and never get up; if you are around to see your kids grow up, see your kids graduate and marry and have kids of their own, it is maybe, because I cared enough to fix a wrong. Every doctor in every state will have to abide, unless, they want to break a law.

    I walk the walk no matter what my feet are wearing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2009
  16. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    Thats good...because stress is bad for you...:)

    here people can get all the opinions and make a decission on their course of action...no one is required to give opinions and no one is required to follow any of it...

    kind of like the up coming election where the opinions will result in a course of action which will end up with a result...be it good or bad.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2008
  17. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    No no no, Cass, stress is good for you, it makes one grow, I am 50 feet tall! :D
    NOW, with my shoes on, lol, I am 50 feet 6 inches...
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2008
  18. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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    Cookie, I have not previously followed your issue. But my high blood pressure was detected by my Dentist. I never go to the doctor. ( Well, I didn't before the diabetes!) but in California, there is some kind of law or procedure that your dentist is supposed to check your blood pressure at an annual checkup. I might never have known!
     
  19. xroad

    xroad New Member

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    Let me know when they propose to put into law that prostate check as a requirement.
     
  20. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    Jim, I remember you telling me that, and believe this or not; I checked, that is the only state where it is done mandatory. Then only dentists.

    My dentist started using wrist monitors (2 months ago) actually, because of you and me. I told him about what you said, and he checked on his end, I checked with my lawyers.

    He knew my husband well, and said, how much he wished he had back then been monitioring BP's. He would had saved my husband's life.

    So, in essence, you are actually responsible for saving lives. My husband would never had been the last to have died because of this, now, hopefully, he will be. He would had wanted it that way.

    Tim, could be alive today and I wouldn't be typing this.
     
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