Poly to PEX coupling safe inside house with wood floors?

[Garn]

I was planning to run 3/4" 160 psi IPS poly pipe from my well to the utility room inside my house, but from what I've read in other threads here, I'm concerned that the coupling from the poly to 3/4" PEX might blow out or leak badly and do a lot of damage (wood floors throughout). I understand that brass is the best of the barbed insert fittings, but I gather that pack-joint fittings for CTS poly pipe are better and that such fittings might exist for at least one kind of IPS pipe as well. Interestingly, I can't find any fittings that are rated for 160 psi; they seem to max out at 100. My well shouldn't produce more than 60 psi, but the relatively low psi ratings for the fittings make me wonder about their resistance to pulling out.
1. What would you estimate to be the percentage probability that a brass barbed fitting would fail after being installed properly, with heat and two clamps on opposing sides?
2. What would that probability be for a pack-joint fitting on CTS poly pipe?
3. Here's the poly pipe I bought, which I can still return:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/3-4-in-x-100-ft-IPS-160-psi-NSF-Poly-Pipe-X2-75160100/205903473
Where might I buy the most secure fitting available for this pipe?

 

[Terry]

I've never had a brass barbed fitting pull out before. I use two stainless clamps on each side, rotated a little off from each other.
If you have two or more bathrooms, I would use 1" from the well. I only use 3/4" for a one bathroom home.

 

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[Water Pro]

I've never had a brass barbed fitting pull out before. I use two stainless clamps on each side, rotated a little off from each other.
If you have two or more bathrooms, I would use 1" from the well. I only use 3/4" for a one bathroom home.

yup. stainless steel clamps are very secure. interestingly enough, the photo provided looks like they partially mangled the right ring while crimping it.

 

[Garn]

Thank you very much, Terry! Is this fitting suitable, or would you recommend another?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Apollo-3-4-in-Brass-Insert-x-MPT-Adaptor-POLYBIM34/203041862

 

[Garn]

Thank you, water pro, too. I hadn't noticed that about the clamps in the photo on the HD site. Am I correct in believing that the worm-drive clamps are better than the type shown in that photo?

 

[Water Pro]

Thank you, water pro, too. I hadn't noticed that about the clamps in the photo on the HD site. Am I correct in believing that the worm-drive clamps are better than the type shown in that photo?

no. those are the clamps (pictured in the photo) you want. SS. you'll need to buy a crimper to install them. ratcheting crimpers work best, but you may not find them locally. The two handed type will get the job done.

 

[Aaroninnh]

My well pump was just redone. 200PSI poly pipe is what was used for my original pump as well as the new one.

Basically this here: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Advance...S-200-psi-NSF-Poly-Pipe-X2-75200100/205903469 although my well uses 1".

The poly pump lands on my tank tee in the basement via a red brass/bronze barb/NPT fitting. The other side of the tee is where my 1" pex starts.
I had to take the pipe off the barb to move the tank, and I can tell you with as much elbow grease as it took to get it off (plus heat) I have no concerns of it blowing off on its own. Zero. Plus the 2 hose clamps provide extra insurance.


Is yours not terminating on a tank tee?

 

[Reach4]

3. Here's the poly pipe I bought, which I can still return:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/3-4-in-x-100-ft-IPS-160-psi-NSF-Poly-Pipe-X2-75160100/205903473

I really don't know why HD call it IPS pipe. It is SIDR pipe (ASTM D2239), which I can tell by the 0.824" ID dimension.

IPS pipe has a fixed OD for a given nominal size, doesn't it? (rhetorical question)

SIDR pipe has a fixed ID for a given nominal size, so different wall-thickness pipe fits the same barbed ("insert") fittings.

If the water is not acidic, then stainless or brass fittings would be good. Certainly stronger than plastic mechanically.

For in-well use for long drop pipes where a lot of weight is hanging, they offer extra-long insert fittings to MIP adapters. Not needed for inside a house.

 

[Water Pro]

My well pump was just redone. 200PSI poly pipe is what was used for my original pump as well as the new one.

Basically this here: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Advance...S-200-psi-NSF-Poly-Pipe-X2-75200100/205903469 although my well uses 1".

The poly pump lands on my tank tee in the basement via a red brass/bronze barb/NPT fitting. The other side of the tee is where my 1" pex starts.
I had to take the pipe off the barb to move the tank, and I can tell you with as much elbow grease as it took to get it off (plus heat) I have no concerns of it blowing off on its own. Zero. Plus the 2 hose clamps provide extra insurance.


Is yours not terminating on a tank tee?

oh ok. I misunderstood. For the poly coming into the house (hooking to PT) dual worm clamps are recommended. It's usually 1" however. Black poly goes on a lot easier if you heat it with a torch.

 

[Garn]

Thanks again, all. It's a one-bath house, so I figure 3/4" will do. The tank is in the well house. I take it from no one saying otherwise that the fitting I asked about (the image of which appeared here automatically) will do.

 

[Reach4]

Thanks again, all. It's a one-bath house, so I figure 3/4" will do. The tank is in the well house. I take it from no one saying otherwise that the fitting I asked about (the image of which appeared here automatically) will do.

That fitting is good, but what will you be connecting that to?

I'm concerned that the coupling from the poly to 3/4" PEX might blow out or leak badly and do a lot of damage (wood floors throughout).

Earlier you had indicated that you would be connecting to PEX. If you will connect into a tank tee, then the one you identified above would be good. If connecting directly to PEX pipe, you would want something like this:

Yes, 3/4 SIDR pipe is that much bigger than 3/4 inch PEX.

On the worm gear clamps, you want to tighten to about 5 ft-lb (60 in-lb). That is doable with a nutdriver or big screwdriver. If you use a socket on a ratchet wrench, it would be easy to over-tighten by mistake.

 

[Garn]

Thank you, Reach4. I abbreviated my earlier question, leaving out the female threads to PEX fitting, and now I can leave it out in actuality. I hadn't found the type of fitting you posted before, but now that you showed that it exists, I just tracked it down. I appreciate the tip on the clamp torque too. Without a torque wrench, would tightening as far as one of average strength could with a nut driver be about right?

 

[Reach4]

I appreciate the tip on the clamp torque too. Without a torque wrench, would tightening as far as one of average strength could with a nut driver be about right?

There are studies. Elliptical handle allows more torque. Rubberized handle allows more torque.

Here were some probably higher than average attempts by guys viewing this as a challenge:
https://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/51868/Maximum-Torque-Possible-with-a-Screwdriver

If you have a fishing scale, you could rig something. If you really want to get into it, there are inch pound torque wrenches.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Jones-Stephens-T60060-Ratchet-Torque-Wrench-w-Built-In-Reversing-Lever

Note you will want to heat the black polyethylene pipe to get the fitting in. Dipping the end in boiling water is the safer way.

 

[Garn]

Thanks again, Reach4.

True that the handle greatly influences how much torque one can apply. SupplyHouse, which you cited re the tool, was the one place that had the PE to PEX fitting; I'm surprised it isn't more common.

Boiling water does sound safest, in terms of temperature control. The only way I've thought of to use on a vertical pipe with the open end up would be to attach a strong plastic bag to drop several inches into the pipe and fill the bag with the boiling water. If that turns out not to be feasible, I would use a heat gun and have to guess how much heat to apply. I gather on other threads here that many use torches. Any idea how they know when they've heated enough?

 

[Reach4]

. I gather on other threads here that many use torches. Any idea how they know when they've heated enough?

I would think experience after they have overheated some. I have never had the occasion to try.

Maybe a hair dryer and a meat thermometer, and keep the heat source moving? Four hands could help, I would think.

Maybe practice with some pipe you cut off before heating up the pipe that will stay. 1/2 inch pvc is 0.840 OD. SIDR pipe is 0.824 ID. http://s3.supplyhouse.com/product_files/Spears-Brochure-77.pdf page "97" says barb OD is between 0.865 and 0.835.

Maybe try jamming some 1/2 inch pvc pipe into practice pieces. Let us know what you learn. Soap or water is OK as a lube. Greases are not.

 

[Garn]

Interesting, Reach4; thank you for the research and reference!