Old Iron Filter and Softener Identification / Other ?s

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JRC3

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Hey guys, I'm new but I've been lurking for a long time now. This forum pops up constantly in my Google searches and I've seen tons of great info here. Anyways, thanks for that.


So I bought a foreclosed home last year that I am finally currently living in. The home is a typical foreclosure with frozen plumbing so all has been gutted. With my ignorance of private wells while I was gutting plumbing, water damage, carpet and baseboards I also threw out the frozen and split water filtration. Big mistake on my part because I think it told a bit of the story of the well here. Also, maybe I could've just replaced the tanks and media and reused the controls...IDK...Probably still would've just replaced everything anyways. Judging by the rust and scale buildup in all the typical places I'd say it wasn't working correctly before it froze, could've just been worn out media, who knows...

My main question is about the one one the right. Is it some sort of air injection? Is it Birm? It could've had a feed tank before I got here, who knows.

Does the softener media look pretty rusty and fouled?

How do you like the location right under the breaker box? Hey, at least they ran plastic just under the box. Haha

Thanks in advance and I hope I have some good things to contribute to the forum
 
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Reach4

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There was not much to salvage here IMO.

The controller on the right is an Autotrol 155 or 255. https://www.softenerparts.com/kb_results.asp?ID=29 The media could have been any of various things. http://www.wqpmag.com/toughing-out-iron lists some classic media. There is newer media available. I don't think there was air injection. Also see http://www.softenerparts.com/Clack_Culligan_Rainsoft_s/3.htm

Note that, if you put in new equipment, that the Autotrol controllers have input on the left as you look from the front, and the other way around is used by other brands AFAIK. So watch for that.

You want to sanitize your well and plumbing at some point. You also want to do a lab water test before selecting new equipment. I like kit 90 from http://www.karlabs.com/watertestkit/ for most wells where chemical contamination is unlikely. It is easy to spend 3x that for even fairly basic testing. Basic should include hardness, iron, manganese, arsenic, pH, silicon and more. The free tests can be the most expensive.
 

JRC3

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Thanks. I've shocked the well with Well Safe pellets and granules 3 times over the past year, the last was a few days before I installed the current filtration back in June.

Results from home test kits:
Hardness : 300 ppm/17-18 gpg
Iron : 3 ppm
pH : 7-7.5
Alkalinity : 200 ppm
No Iron Bacteria/nitrate/nitrite/copper/coliform bacteria


Current setup:
Softener: Fleck 7000SXT metered, 32000 grain capacity / 1.0 Cu Ft
Iron Filter: Fleck 7000 1.o cu ft Pyrolox, 9x48 tank

With both filters in bypass I get exactly 10 gpm to the utility sink located right next to the filters. I have removed the 7 gpm DLFC in the Pyrolox filter so I can get as much of that 10 gpm through and I actually get about 9 gpm from the filter's 1/2"drain tubing when it BWs. I've also purchased a larger 1" DLFC assy that I might install with a larger tubing.

Once the filter goes into BW the well pump runs the entire time without cycling and sits around 37 psi and delivers that 10 gpm.

Pressure switch 30/50 44G pressure tank (28psi)
Regen every 3 days after about 180-200 gallons of use. Use will increase in the future by 1/3 once laundry and kitchen are up and running.
BW: 15 min.
RR: 15 min.

I'm just second guessing my choice of the heavy Pyrolox with my 10 gpm. I think I'm fine but I wonder if I need a little tweaking to keep things working just right. I also wonder if I need to adjust my BW or RR times up or down?

My big mistake was getting blue tanks. What was I thinking not going natural so I could light things up and see what's going on inside the tanks. But blue looks cool. Duh!
 

ditttohead

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I would recommend rebedding the pyrolox with KL. I don't even stock Pyrolox anymore. The stuff is impossible to backwash! :)

Even if you had natural tanks, you wouldn't see the pyrolox doing anything, It does not expand well during backwash. The resin is easy, just put the system in backwash and hit the tank, it will feel hollow like a drum.
 

JRC3

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I would recommend rebedding the pyrolox with KL.
I've been kicking it around since I installed it. I've poured so much and still pouring so much time and money into this house, I'd like to wait til spring to do it. But I hate to worry about having crap water or throwing iron at my softener and new plumbing and fixtures. I'm also worried about the well and the extra water to regen. I was told there were 4-7 people living here at different times and it only had a 20G pressure tank. It was waterlogged and dated 2001 or 03 as I remember. There was also a dead/replaced 10G down there too. I have no clue how old the pump is or anything. Teenagers got in the house and illegally energized the electric power/meter, so who knows if the pump ran through any frozen/bursted plumbing for an extended period.

I am going to bite the bullet and rebed it at some point. (Like May 2017) If I don't do it now, what is a good backwash schedule and BW/RR times. Right now I'm doing as directed every 3 days, 15 mins BW and 15 mins RR. Although the pump only starts once during the whole regen, I hate having it run any more than needed. Does the RR need to be that long? It seems long to me but I don't know the things you guys do. Would 2 days with shorter time be better? Daily??



Also, while crunching my capacity and salt settings I discovered my softener/1.0 cuft / 9x48 tank -Fleck 7000SXT valve was shipped with an 01/white injector. This needs changed, correct...Should be a 00/violet?

*edit*
BLFC: .250
DLFC: 2.4
Capacity set at 20K
BW: 10
BD: 60
2nd BW: 5
RR: 10
BF: 8



Thanks, again.
 
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Reach4

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Violet would be better if you are going to go to 6 pounds of salt per regen. If you use more salt than that, you would either want the red injector, or you would increase the BD time beyond an hour.

What is the iron level after the Pyrolox?

DLFC =2.4 is more common with a 10 inch resin tank, and it may be a bit much with a 9 inch tank, I think.
 
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Bannerman

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In the other thread, you said the softener has "32,000" grains capacity. Most resin does have 32K capacity per 1 cuft when manufactured, but some capacity will be lost due to resin bead breakage and wearing over time through regeneration. In practice, 1 cuft is generally considered to have 30,000 grains capacity to anticipate this loss.

For a 1 cuft softener:
To regenerate all 32K (if all 1 cuft is present) would require 18 lbs of salt
To regen 30 K capacity would require 15 lbs
27K ... 10 lbs
24K ... 8 lbs
20K ... 6 lbs

As you can see, salt efficiency increases as the usable capacity and salt dose is reduced. The entire volume of resin is in the tank, but only a portion of the capacity is utilized prior to regeneration, similar to refueling your car when there is 1/4 tank remaining. It is generally recommended not to reduce below 6 lbs / 20K.
 

JRC3

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In the other thread, you said the softener has "32,000" grains capacity. Most resin does have 32K capacity per 1 cuft when manufactured, but some capacity will be lost due to resin bead breakage and wearing over time through regeneration. In practice, 1 cuft is generally considered to have 30,000 grains capacity to anticipate this loss.

Yep, that's why I said, "It's a 1.0 cuft/"32k" (finger quote signs in the air) ..." By my finger quotes I meant it was 30k in reality.


It's like the industry doesn't want you to be efficient. Could have more to do with keeping things easy for the homeowner. Could be to give lots of buffer room for user error to make sure their softener always provides soft water. Could also be to sell salt...There are a lot of people who buy their salt from the company they lease or buy their equipment from.

Being more efficient makes me almost consider using potassium chloride instead of salt. I've been considering that or RO for drinking and cooking. The thing is I drink a lot of water from the bathroom tap at night. I've considered doing an RO in the maintenance room and run dedicated plumbing to the kitchen and two bathrooms with drinking faucets in each. IDK
 

JRC3

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What is the iron level after the Pyrolox?
I haven't checked that. All I know is this...(see attached below)

First pic is with the softener bypassed running through the Pyrolox filter only. Second pic is no Pyrolx or softener.

Those were with warm water. I tried it with cold only and it wasn't quite as dark. I repeated it on another day to be sure. It's like my tankless water made the water turn a little darker. Does the tankless heater maybe oxidate the iron faster??

*edit* the pic order is reverse. Probably obvious.
 

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Reach4

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*edit* the pic order is reverse. Probably obvious.
The 1982 is yellow water. I presume that is after the filter, right and 1986 is after the softener? But that would not be reversed.
 

JRC3

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The nice clear water was run through the Pyrolox only with no softener. The nasty water was run direct from the well bypassing the iron filter and softener (raw).
 

JRC3

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Pyrolox is amazing, if you can backwash it... :)
I'd like to re-ask this question:

I am going to bite the bullet and rebed it at some point. (Like May 2017) If I don't do it now, what is a good backwash schedule and BW/RR times. Right now I'm doing as directed every 3 days, 15 mins BW and 15 mins RR... Does the RR need to be that long? It seems long to me but I don't know the things you guys do. Would 2 days with shorter times be better? Daily??
 

ditttohead

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If you can get enough backwash rate then a shorter backwash is typical. RR should only be about 4 minutes.

More frequent but shorter is typically considered better.
 

JRC3

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If you can get enough backwash rate then a shorter backwash is typical. RR should only be about 4 minutes.

More frequent but shorter is typically considered better.
Thank you, I was hoping to hear that because it just made sense to me. Isn't the RR to settle the bed down to put back into service? If so it just makes sense that a heavy media would take less to get it done.

I'm getting 10gpm through the bypassed filter and softener out of the utility right beside them. With that rate should I leave my BW at 15 min / 3 days, or should I do 10 min / 2 days, or should I even do more frequently like 15 min/ 1-2 days? Like I said I want to rebed it but hope to wait til spring.

Fleck 7000SXT
1.o cuft Pyrolox
9x48 tank
DLFC: washer removed
Iron: 3ppm
Water use: 60-70 gallons per day

Thanks!

P.S.
I know I made a mistake and that the media needs replaced so I'm not gonna cry about any advice I get about washing it if and when the media fouls before I can change it out.
 

JRC3

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Can this be legit? http://www.aquascience.net/katalox-light

That's like $50 less than the other lower priced sites.

Also (as Reach said) I need to address my DLFC: 2.4, I've also found the 01/white injector is too big. I need to contact qualitywaterforless and have them send me the correct ones. Do you think there's a chance that I've lost any significant amount of media because of this? It has probably regenerated about 7-9 times since it was first set up. I'm set to regen in about 4 days and I'm going to check the discharge for media and such.


Another question: When I switch to KL what should my DLFC be? Right now I have the button/washer removed to get as much of my 10gpm well pump flow as possible through the Pyrolox.
 

Reach4

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Another question: When I switch to KL what should my DLFC be? Right now I have the button/washer removed to get as much of my 10gpm well pump flow as possible through the Pyrolox.
Here is a table with my take on it for the KL in the 9 inch tank from my reading. I think 40% expansion may be a good target. I may be wrong. Maybe 35% would be a better target number.

For my take on the softener DLFC, take a look at https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/5600sxt-br-issue.67236/page-2#post-500012 Use the 0.81 factor if the softener is also 9 inch.
 

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JRC3

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Here is a table with my take on it for the KL in the 9 inch tank from my reading. I think 40% expansion may be a good target. I may be wrong. Maybe 35% would be a better target number.
My water is around 55-58 degrees (I can't remember exactly) so it looks like the 7.0 button I have will be good for KL

In regards to the softener DLFC it sure looks like 2.0 is where I should be at at the most with my water temp.

Thanks, again

Side note:
I just backwashed my Pyrolox filter into a 13g white trash can placed in my laundry sink and it sure was stinky and discolored for the first few minutes,
 
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Bannerman

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The injector size dictates the slow rinse and brine draw rates. An injector that is too large will not result in media loss but can result in the brine not having enough contact time with the resin and therefore less regenerated capacity than programmed.

The Brine Draw setting is typically 60 minutes. If you proceed to time how long the brine tank takes to empty 0f liquid to when the air check closes, as a rule of thumb, that should be 15 minutes of the 60 minute setting. If the time needed to empty is reasonably close to 15 minutes, that would signify the correct injector is installed whereas if substantially less than 15 minutes is needed, then the injector size should likely be reduced. If substantially more than 15 minutes is needed, then the BD setting should be increased to 4X the actual time to empty.

Once the brine tank has been emptied, the remainder of the BD setting is utilized to slowly push the brine through the resin and to rinse the brine out to the drain.

With a 9 inch softener, 2.0 gpm is the most common DLFC rate whereas 2.4 gpm for a 10" tank. Water temperature can alter these rates. A DLFC rate that is too high or colder water than planned, can result in resin loss to drain due to the resin being lifted too high during backwash..
 
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