Old Iron Filter and Softener Identification / Other ?s

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JRC3

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Makes sense. My note on my last BD when I was set at 15lbs/5g (as directed) was 19 minutes til the air gap shut off. My next regen will be at 7.5 lbs/2.5g so it seems that it will only take 9.5 minutes. Not long enough., it needs changed. I understand that I bought online to save money (A good chunk of money)...What I do not understand is why basic setup specs weren't adhered to. With the volume I'm sure they sell, it should be pretty basic by now. Sucks for the buyer who doesn't check it all out.

I'm not bad-mouthing them, but it wouldn't take much more to do it right. I wonder if current stock on hand had everything to do with it.
 

Bannerman

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I've seen references to online dealers as guys working from their basements or garages, ie: a 1 or 2 person operation selling a product they may not fully understand or know how to configure. Whether this is or isn't true is probably more dependent on the particular dealer, not necessarily a general rule.

Consider that the 5600 valve maybe utilized on a range of tank sizes from 8" up to 12". A valve pre-configured for a larger tank, may have been installed on your 9" tank with the assembler not giving further consideration that the injector and DLFC needed to be exchanged, especially if he/she doesn't fully understand the significance of those flow rates in relation to tank size and water temperature.
 

JRC3

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A valve pre-configured for a larger tank, may have been installed on your 9" tank...

That's exactly what I figured happened because of the Fleck sticker. Could be it's all they had on hand and just shipped it. After selling softeners, filters, and such for as long as they have, plenty of knowledge has to have been picked up along the way.

I also find it funny that my Pyrolox filter had a 7.0 gpm button installed and "70" was handwritten on it's Fleck label. They should mark the price up a few dollars and put the correct sized DLFC assembly on the valve, as the 3/4" max is 7.0 gpm. This company is way cheaper than anyone else and I don't think a few dollars more on their sell prices is gonna hurt their sales any.

For the record, I looked up the address posted on their website and it is a UPS store. You can also look up the phone number and the real address comes up. Google that and see the house and garage associated with it. I don't care if it is a small business and I actually like seeing a guy make a living for himself out of his home. But I would expect better control on the setups because any problems that may arise would be more costly.

They included 2 extra blue clips and an extra BLFC clip with the order. They also sent me an extra set of plumbing connector just because I asked about it. And the bypass valves were included. They didn't skimp on the packing and skid loading either. I truly don't think they intend to cheat anyone.
 

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JRC3

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Water Softener
Fleck 7000SXT
1.o cuft
9x48 tank
BLFC: .250
DLFC: 2.0
Incector: 00/violet

This is the corrected setup with the right injector and DLFC on my softener.

Do I also need to replace that .250 BLFC as the Fleck sizing bulletin says? (Below) Or will it be close enough? Will I just get a little leakage of raw water into the brine tank? Will it really matter?

Thanks again
 

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Reach4

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Do I also need to replace that .250 BLFC as the Fleck sizing bulletin says? (Below) Or will it be close enough? Will I just get a little leakage of raw water into the brine tank? Will it really matter?
I think the concern is that the flow during BF will be less than 0.25 GPM, causing you to use too little salt.

It seems to me that you could test your water when it is time for regeneration. If you find some hardness leakage, you could raise your BF from 8 minutes (if using 6 pounds of salt) to maybe 9 minutes to compensate.
 

JRC3

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I considered measuring the brine fill in a bucket. The brine tank current looks like it has the correct amount of water in it.

This is my concern:
The raw water runs down through the media (or resin bed), up through the injector assembly, and then through the BLFC. The treated water runs through the injector before the BLFC, therefore the BLFC must be sized smaller than the injector flow rates to be accurate in determining how much treated water is being placed in the brine tank.
The chart shows the .250 for the next larger sized system, so is it close enough? I mean will a little hard water just bleed through? Is that the only problem with a larger BLFC?

I don't mind replacing it for $15. https://www.watersoftener-parts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5407
 

Reach4

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I don't know. I agree that you are on the edge of where that document draws the line.

However you have the option to do measurements. You could use your Hach 5-B. You could actually measure the flow rate if you wanted to, by directing the BF into a bucket. Or you could just avoid measurements, and change the BLFC and double your BF number. It would still be a good idea to measure your residual hardness in any case.
 

Bannerman

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The BLFC/injector size concern for the 7000 valve, is ensuring the BLFC does not pass more water than the injector. If that occurred, the injector would improperly be the flow limiting device instead of the BLFC. As the BLFC functions in one direction, the brine refill rate is to be governed by the BLFC whereas the brine draw rate is to be governed by the injector.

It appears that at 2.0 gpm DLFC, there is too little water flowing through the injector to support .25 gpm BLFC so a 0.125 BLFC needs to be used. When in doubt, best to follow the manufacturers recommendation.
 
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JRC3

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Yep, I thought about checking the hardness of the BF water. Does it really matter if the BF water is softened, or is that sorta just a sales gimmick?
 

JRC3

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I'm not sure that the 0.25 gpm you have would present an issue, but when in doubt, best to follow the manufacturers recommendation.
Yeah, this is probably the best bet.


OK, I will put this subject to bed now and order the correct one. Thanks.
 

Reach4

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Yep, I thought about checking the hardness of the BF water. Does it really matter if the BF water is softened, or is that sorta just a sales gimmick?
I think the advantage of soft water fill is that a small amount of sediment in the brine tank is avoided. So maybe you have to clean the brine tank every 10 years instead of 8... (WAG).

Measuring the hardness of the BF fill water is not going to be meaningful IMO. All of your BF water will have come from the softened water regardless of which BLFC you use.
 

ditttohead

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You will not get hard water during the refill. the injector simply becomes the flow restrictor rather than the actual BLFC button. I would simply replace the injector with a larger injector. A 0 or number 1 would be fine. It is really nothing more than a math equation. Technically, longer brine draw times are more efficient but in most applications this is not even calculable and considering the reserve capacities etc that are designed into a system it is rarely critical to use very slow draw rates except for systems that need to meet certified efficiency standards.
 

ditttohead

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Maybe we are not understanding each other.

If too small of an injector is used, the orifice will be smaller then the item that was intended to regulate the refill rate to the brine tank. This will have nothing to do with whether or not hard or soft water water is put into the brine tank. It can affect the systems useful capacity during service if the brine tank does not receive enough water.

Most online resellers do not actually sell stock, they use companies like mine to drop ship. We have rid ourselves of most of the online dealers since their only goal is to be the lowest price and quality has to suffer obviously. The use of the lowest cost mineral tank, medias, build components etc. Also many of the online companies run several companies from their moms basement so their knowledge is pathetic. If you read their websites, you will notice they all simply cut and paste each others information, technical data etc. Many of these companies are being denied the higher end USA made components since they keep pairing them to junk and deferring all technical calls back to the components manufacturers.

As to why the wrong injectors etc. are used... many of the OEM's don't care when they are being pounded for pennies in order to keep bad business. They simply turn and burn equipment at margins that are unable to accommodate taking the 10 minutes it takes to properly set up and program a system properly. They simply send them out "close enough".

As to the use of 00 injector, be sure to either time it yourself or use the supplied draw charts that came with the system to determine the proper brine/slow rinse cycle. Typically the slow rinse should be 3x the draw cycle. The fast rinse cycle should never be used to rinse the system, it serves a different purpose. If you look at the chart, the injector will flow over .25 gpm so it should be adequate, barely. The .125 would be a better choice but it is unlikely it would make a difference.
 

JRC3

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Quick Pyrolox question.

Every once and a while I get a sulfur smell when I get out of the shower and it sticks with me a bit. This time I realized it started after I ran a fair amount of water at around 6gpm a day before. I'm sure it's because I'm at or beyond the service flow rate of the 9x48 tank and 1 cuft Pyrolox. At that rate am I actually rinsing some sulfur off of the Pyrolox on top of what's in the raw water?

I'm guessing the softener is getting the blow by iron but not the sulfur. What effect might this have on the softener, and does a normal softener regin clean it all out? In hindsight realizing this has happened before, it has never been a long term problem and either cleared out of the softener on it's own, or it happened close to a regin. I'm due to regin in a day or two so maybe I'll force it and see how it clears the problem.

I guess I just need to watch my flow rate.
 

ditttohead

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Pyrolox and all other manganese dioxide ore based medias have limitation on flow rates. 6 GPM far exceeds the recommended flow rates of this type of media in your system. I always recommend no less than 1.5 CF of media, larger if the budget allows especially for iron, manganese, and h2s reduction. The problem with pyrolox and your application is that backwashing it is fairly difficult. We typically recommend 12 gpm backwash for that system size. More if the water temperature is not cold or if the contaminant levels are high.
H2s tends to pass through the softener with no affect.
 

JRC3

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My biggest water hog is my old style washer, I've since restricted it to 3.8gpm max.
I am always amazed at what comes out of my Pyrolox filter. If I let the water sit overnight it looks like applejuice.

That's basically 1o gpm BW from that 1 cuft filter. I cant wait to KL and shorten those BW and RR times and not worry about gpm.
 
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