New Well - Local Water Company $6,000+ - what to do?

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jeff blankenship

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New Well, new house - ~150ft deep, 24 gal/min
5,000sq ft, 5.5 baths;
5 people + in-law suite with part time tenants
Septic System

Well initial positive for Total Coliform; Well company "shocked" last week - waiting for new test results

Other Test results:
Calcium 65
Chloride 97.2
Copper <.01
Flouride <.1
Iron < .06
Magnesium 24
Nitrate 11.11
ph 6.3
Sulfate 27.2
Alkalinity 106
Total Hardness 262
Zinc .10

Culligan Estimate = $3300 softner; $3400 nitrate filtration; $1400 UV Light; $1000 RO
Well Doctor (local) = $2740 softner (wd48?), UV Light $1760; RO $1700

We want to address the HARDNESS for sure.
Secondary would be:
Nitrate 11.11 - acceptable range is 10.
Total Coliform

MY QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS - We want a water softener system that will help with water spots, soap sud, and prevent scaling. HOWEVER, is there a way to do this without feeling slimy after a shower? Some way to adjust the salt level or mix hard/soft?? Does that make sense?

Any thoughts on the Total Coliform and Nitrate? Should we address this as well?

Any recommendations on a system? I have no idea on BRAND, or SIZE, and just getting up to speed on some of the terminology.

Thanks in advance
 
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Skyjumper

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that would be the "inside the beltway" price...

you will get a lot of great advice here. I'll say your iron looks really good and that makes this much easier for you. the WD48 is a 48,000 grain softener, and $2740 is very high for that even with installation. but they figure, hey this guy has a huge new house in DC he can afford it...

don't worry about the "slimy" feel --- that freaked me out when I first moved from hard to soft water... now I could never go back to hard water, can't stand the sticky feeling.
 

Reach4

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Well initial positive for Total Coliform; Well company "shocked" last week - waiting for new test results
I think most positive results for coliform for deep wells, with casing above ground, are from bad sampling. However after well work, you do want to sanitize. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my write-up, which is more intense than most. If you have a pit, coliform is not surprising. In that case, I would get the casing extended, and a pitless adapter installed. Yes, that costs, but it is money well-spent.

Nitrate 11.11
My expectation is that nitrate levels like that are uncommon for deep wells. That could come from surface water seeping into a well that is not properly sealed. Does your casing extend above ground, or is your well in a pit, or what? I


You may want to treat that, but there can be alternatives.

When it comes to treatment, are you willing to consider self-install?

Tell us about your well first. Pit or casing above ground? If you don't have a pit, do you have an above-ground check valve? I am not a pro, but I consider these two questions to be priority.
 

Water Pro

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New Well, new house - ~150ft deep, 24 gal/min
5,000sq ft, 5.5 baths;
5 people + in-law suite with part time tenants
Septic System

Well initial positive for Total Coliform; Well company "shocked" last week - waiting for new test results

Other Test results:
Calcium 65
Chloride 97.2
Copper <.01
Flouride <.1
Iron < .06
Magnesium 24
Nitrate 11.11
ph 6.3
Sulfate 27.2
Alkalinity 106
Total Hardness 262
Zinc .10

Culligan Estimate = $3300 softner; $3400 nitrate filtration; $1400 UV Light; $1000 RO
Well Doctor (local) = $2740 softner (wd48?), UV Light $1760; RO $1700

We want to address the HARDNESS for sure.
Secondary would be:
Nitrate 11.11 - acceptable range is 10.
Total Coliform

MY QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS - We want a water softener system that will help with water spots, soap sud, and prevent scaling. HOWEVER, is there a way to do this without feeling slimy after a shower? Some way to adjust the salt level or mix hard/soft?? Does that make sense?

Any thoughts on the Total Coliform and Nitrate? Should we address this as well?

Any recommendations on a system? I have no idea on BRAND, or SIZE, and just getting up to speed on some of the terminology.

Thanks in advance
you mention septic in use. It may be possible that your septic tank is leaching into you well and may be the source of your nitrates and harmful bacteria. are you near a feedlot or woodland?
 

Reach4

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you mention septic in use. It may be possible that your septic tank is leaching into you well and may be the source of your nitrates and harmful bacteria. are you near a feedlot or woodland?
Or a fertilized lawn where squirrels or dogs etc go?
 

Water Pro

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New Well, new house - ~150ft deep, 24 gal/min
5,000sq ft, 5.5 baths;
5 people + in-law suite with part time tenants
Septic System

Well initial positive for Total Coliform; Well company "shocked" last week - waiting for new test results

Other Test results:
Calcium 65
Chloride 97.2
Copper <.01
Flouride <.1
Iron < .06
Magnesium 24
Nitrate 11.11
ph 6.3
Sulfate 27.2
Alkalinity 106
Total Hardness 262
Zinc .10

Culligan Estimate = $3300 softner; $3400 nitrate filtration; $1400 UV Light; $1000 RO
Well Doctor (local) = $2740 softner (wd48?), UV Light $1760; RO $1700

We want to address the HARDNESS for sure.
Secondary would be:
Nitrate 11.11 - acceptable range is 10.
Total Coliform

MY QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS - We want a water softener system that will help with water spots, soap sud, and prevent scaling. HOWEVER, is there a way to do this without feeling slimy after a shower? Some way to adjust the salt level or mix hard/soft?? Does that make sense?

Any thoughts on the Total Coliform and Nitrate? Should we address this as well?

Any recommendations on a system? I have no idea on BRAND, or SIZE, and just getting up to speed on some of the terminology.

Thanks in advance
12x54" (2 cu. ft) would be advisable for a softener, fleck and clack are good units. Prices on the RO and UV seem reasonable. you can remove nitrates with the RO just for drinking as nitrates don't absorb through the skin. you may have a damaged (leaking) septic tank contributing to your issues with nitrates and harmful bacteria
 

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What does an open well cap mean?

Does your casing extend above ground a foot or so?
most times it is a foot or so extended, but not always. If it's near ground level and there is a damaged or broken well cap, or the casing is damaged, corroded or compromised in some way at ground level, surface run-off can potentially contaminate the well.
 

jeff blankenship

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Hello everyone - thanks for all the responses.

Some more information - what kind of well do I have? Wow, not sure. I did not know there were all these different options:)

There is a white PVC casing that extends probably 12-18 inches above the ground level - has a solid cap on it, and electric cable, and water line goes into that down to pump. Best I can tell the white casing is sealed and the electric and water line come out of that. I'm not sure how far the casing extends down into the well. It may be written down somewhere - I'll check when there is daylight. A fake rock covers all of this.

The electric line and water line then go underground to the house/basement. The pressure tank was at the pump, but was moved 2 months ago to our basement when we moved in and all plumbing was completed.

So, yes, the casing does extend above the ground level.

Concerning Coliform - the local municipality test new wells, and the "seasoned" guy who came out to test said nearly 50% of all new wells he tests are positive for coliform, and typically test negative after 1 treatment. SO, I'm not OVERLY concerned with Coliform. we should get the 2nd test results next week for coliform.

CONCERNING NITRATE - so, the property is an old Dairy Farm, and the well is located within 100ft of the old barn. So, I'd guess that is the source for Nitrates.
 

jeff blankenship

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Concerning the SEPTIC - I do not believe this is an issue for our well. County is very picky on proximity of wells to septic. Both the well and the septic are new. well is 1 year old, Septic system in place about 3-4 months. They are on opposite sides of house and property - 200-300 ft apart. We have only been in the house for 2 months, so the septic system has only been in use a few months. Pretty sure the Nitrates are from dairy farm that was in place for 40+ years.
 

jeff blankenship

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I think most positive results for coliform for deep wells, with casing above ground, are from bad sampling. However after well work, you do want to sanitize. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my write-up, which is more intense than most. If you have a pit, coliform is not surprising. In that case, I would get the casing extended, and a pitless adapter installed. Yes, that costs, but it is money well-spent.


My expectation is that nitrate levels like that are uncommon for deep wells. That could come from surface water seeping into a well that is not properly sealed. Does your casing extend above ground, or is your well in a pit, or what? I



You may want to treat that, but there can be alternatives.

When it comes to treatment, are you willing to consider self-install?

Tell us about your well first. Pit or casing above ground? If you don't have a pit, do you have an above-ground check valve? I am not a pro, but I consider these two questions to be priority.

I'll take a picture and post. Not sure what a above ground check valve would look like
 

jeff blankenship

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Picture of well
 

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Reach4

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1. You have a "well seal" rather than a well cap. Your setup at the well is usual for non-freezing areas. That may make sanitizing harder for recirculating.

2. It is not normal to have a cartridge filter or a valve in line with the pipe from the well. If somebody closes the valve, it would burn out the pump.

3. Protect your outside plastic with paint or a cover.
 

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1. You have a "well seal" rather than a well cap. Your setup at the well is usual for non-freezing areas. That may make sanitizing harder for recirculating.

2. It is not normal to have a cartridge filter or a valve in line with the pipe from the well. If somebody closes the valve, it would burn out the pump.

3. Protect your outside plastic with paint or a cover.
yup. I'm wondering if it's actually sealing where it meets the casing. almost looks like muddy water is passing through that filter. He only has .06 parts Fe? unless the filter hasn't been changed in a while?
 

jeff blankenship

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1. You have a "well seal" rather than a well cap. Your setup at the well is usual for non-freezing areas. That may make sanitizing harder for recirculating.

2. It is not normal to have a cartridge filter or a valve in line with the pipe from the well. If somebody closes the valve, it would burn out the pump.

3. Protect your outside plastic with paint or a cover.

Thanks for taking the time for your responses. My thoughts:

1. Not sure what "make sanitizing harder for recirculating" means - are you referring to retreating or "shocking" the well with bleach for the coliform? If so, we just did that. Well guy pour bleach into well, took small hose and circulated some water from spigot at well back into well a few minutes. Then we turned on a few faucets in house until we could smell bleach. Let sit for 24 hours.

2. Yeah, one of the water softener guys mentioned that as well. I think my contractor did that, not a plumber. I'll have whomever installs the softner correct that. So, should the water line from the well pump go directly (without any shutoffs) to the pressure tank? Would that be a "normal" setup?

3. WE have a fake rock that covers this
 

jeff blankenship

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yup. I'm wondering if it's actually sealing where it meets the casing. almost looks like muddy water is passing through that filter. He only has .06 parts Fe? unless the filter hasn't been changed in a while?
Not sure exactly when filter was installed, but correct, it has never been changed.
 

jeff blankenship

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12x54" (2 cu. ft) would be advisable for a softener, fleck and clack are good units. Prices on the RO and UV seem reasonable. you can remove nitrates with the RO just for drinking as nitrates don't absorb through the skin. you may have a damaged (leaking) septic tank contributing to your issues with nitrates and harmful bacteria

2 Ct ft softner - okay, how many grains, and where should I purchase? Also, I came across this article (us water systems)- I realize they are trying to sell their brand, but just curious what you pros think? (reminds me of my mom's electrolux vacuum which was awesome, but after sold, now electrolux piece of junk).
 

Water Pro

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2 Ct ft softner - okay, how many grains, and where should I purchase? Also, I came across this article (us water systems)- I realize they are trying to sell their brand, but just curious what you pros think? (reminds me of my mom's electrolux vacuum which was awesome, but after sold, now electrolux piece of junk).
2 Ct ft softner - okay, how many grains, and where should I purchase? Also, I came across this article (us water systems)- I realize they are trying to sell their brand, but just curious what you pros think? (reminds me of my mom's electrolux vacuum which was awesome, but after sold, now electrolux piece of junk).
2 cu ft (12x54"tank) of resin contains 64000 grains, while a 10x54" tank contains 48000 grains. a 48000 grain may work but efficiency may suffer. there are many factors to consider, including factoring in a 25% reserve capacity and if you have newer (more efficient) fixtures and appliances. I would not recommend buying the equipment outright unless you plan on installing yourself, which I don't recommend unless you have experience doing this (especially with the UV). Bannerman might have some insight on this.
 

jeff blankenship

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2 cu ft (12x54"tank) of resin contains 64000 grains, while a 10x54" tank contains 48000 grains. a 48000 grain may work but efficiency may suffer. there are many factors to consider, including factoring in a 25% reserve capacity and if you have newer (more efficient) fixtures and appliances. I would not recommend buying the equipment outright unless you plan on installing yourself, which I don't recommend unless you have experience doing this (especially with the UV). Bannerman might have some insight on this.

Thanks. Yes, brand new house, brand new appliances. 2 dishwashers, 1 washing machine, Ranai Tankless water heater... In my younger days, i installed my own pressure tank, copper piping, etc... but I think I'd have someone take care of this for me.
 
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