Water Softener, In need of a new system...

[Chad D.]

Good afternoon Friends. New to this forum, but well seasoned on how they work!

I currently have a rented softener system that I was quite happy with till the provider sold to a much larger company. Our level of service is not what it used to be, and the provided services are no longer in line with the original contract parameters. The specs on the system are pretty vague, other than it is a softener with a salt tank. I don't know the capacity of the system, but it regens every other day and I go through 2-3 bags of salt per month. A single 4 1/2 x 20" blue filter is after the softener with a sediment type 5-micron filter.

That said, I am planning to remove the rented system and install one I own. Since I can't say for certain that my current system is the most appropriate, I had a well water test performed. Lab results are back in my hand now, and I would like to ask for opinions and suggestions that may help guide me down the right path...

Test results are:

Iron: 1.00 mg/L
Arsenic: Not detected
Hardness: 79.2 mg/L
Conductivity: 183 umhos/c
TDS: 114 mg/L
Nitrogen, Nitrate: 1.02 mg/L
pH: 6.8
Coliform: Absent
E. Coli: Absent

I'm not versed in this stuff, but I am trying to learn. Let's see how I do... Please, straighten me out where necessary!

79.2/17.1=4.64 Grains
Add 5 more for the iron = 9.64 grains per day, per person.
4-5 people in our 4 bedroom 2.5 bath home. Call it 5?
5 people x 70 gallons per day = 350 gallons per day.

350 gpd x 9.64 grains = 3,374 grains per day.

A 1 cubic ft. (24,000) grain softener puts me at a regen cycle of 7.12 days...


What about the total dissolved solids??? A big 4 1/2" x 20" blue filter thing? If so, a single sediment type filter, or the triple one that has three different filter types in series? Seems like this should be installed prior to the softener; please confirm.

What am I missing? My very basic fire sprinkler fitter brain says that the rest of the test results are not alarming. Thoughts on that assumption?

This system will treat all of the water that goes to my home. Only the irrigation will be non-treated.


Thanks for reading my long-winded first post and for any input you may have!

 

[Reach4]

What about the total dissolved solids??? A big 4 1/2" x 20" blue filter thing? If so, a single sediment type filter, or the triple one that has three different filter types in series?

I think you may want something that can take the rocks out before the softener. This could be a wye filter or a cartridge filter. Maybe have a 5 micron cartridge after the softener.

An iron removal system before the softener would be good, but it would be a backwashing system -- not a cartridge system. A 1 ppm iron is handleable with a softener with some extra care of the softener.

114 TDS is pretty low. Neither cartridge filters nor softeners lower TDS. They are Dissolved solids.

Your results do not list sulfate. Any H2S (sulfur) smell?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Chad D.]

Thanks for the response!

I’m unfamiliar with iron removal systems, so I may need to bone up on that a bit. At 1 ppm, would it be preferable to a softener alone?

The comment about TDS not getting filtered with cartridge filters makes sense. At my level, is it even worth worrying about?

And, to your question about H2S, no. We have no detectable sulfur smell.

 

[Reach4]

At my level, is it even worth worrying about?

It's worth celebrating.

 

[Chad D.]

It's worth celebrating.

Not quite following you. Is my TDS a good thing? Or something to work on?


Should also note that my well is 60’ deep and makes 8 GPM.

 

[Reach4]

Not quite following you. Is my TDS a good thing? Or something to work on?

Your TDS is a lot lower than mine, and certainly less than bottled mineral waters.
https://www.safewater.org/fact-sheets-1/2017/1/23/tds-and-ph

 

[ditttohead]

While I am not a fan of using softeners for iron reduction mainly because too many people don'y understand the limitations and the potential problems... For your application a simple softener designed for iron reduction will probably work very well. The low pH helps the softener keep itself from fouling, and a little citric acid in the brine tanks will help keep the resin clean for many years. Are you planning on doing the installation yourself?

 

[Chad D.]

While I am not a fan of using softeners for iron reduction mainly because too many people don'y understand the limitations and the potential problems... For your application a simple softener designed for iron reduction will probably work very well. The low pH helps the softener keep itself from fouling, and a little citric acid in the brine tanks will help keep the resin clean for many years. Are you planning on doing the installation yourself?

This is what I am looking for! To answer your last question first, yes. I do intend to install everything myself. While not a plumber, I am a pipe fitter by trade. My intent is to use PEX, but can do just about anything.

As to your comments on softeners for iron...
What are the concerns that I need to be aware of? I am not married to the plan of a softener, and am only looking at that route because it is what I am familiar with. Should I look at something else?

Tell me about the limitations and potential pronlems!

citric stuff in brine tank... I’ve got a partial gallon jug of it that my current service provider puts somewhere, but I’m not sure where, how much, or how often... Any input on that, as well as everything else, is appreciated!

 

[ditttohead]

Iron fouls resin, but low pH and a little acid in the brine tank and you should be good. Too many companies rely on softening without regard for water conditions, and then wonder why the resin only lasted 6 months... in your application I could see the resin lasting many years without too much problem. It is also inefficient, but since you have low hardness, it is not that big of a deal.

 

[Skyjumper]

citric stuff in brine tank... I’ve got a partial gallon jug of it that my current service provider puts somewhere, but I’m not sure where, how much, or how often... Any input on that, as well as everything else, is appreciated!

this is the citric acid I use https://www.amazon.com/Milliard-Citric-Acid-Pound-NON-GMO/dp/B01DKRP1GM
add 1/2 cup with each bag of salt to the brine tank.

I also add a couple ounces of this stuff directly to the brine well (the round pipe in the brine tank) with each regeneration.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Pro-Products-64-oz-Res-Care-RK03B/306730104

do these things and you should have no problems with your softener.

 

[Chad D.]

this is the citric acid I use
add 1/2 cup with each bag of salt to the brine tank.

I also add a couple ounces of this stuff directly to the brine well (the round pipe in the brine tank) with each regeneration.

do these things and you should have no problems with your softener.

Thanks for this input! I think it all makes sense, but let me run it back for confirmation.

Add 1/2 cup of the citric acid with each bag of salt when I replenish the brine tank. Also, pour a couple ounces of the resin cleaner down the tube in brine tank at each regen cycle.

If that’s correct, how critical is it to get the resin cleaner in at a specific time? To clarify, won’t the system be (ideally) sized to regen once per week? Let’s say it does this at 3:00 AM on Monday mornings. Can I dump the cleaner in on Sunday evening? Should we avoid water use till after the regen cycle?


Again, I really appreciate the input I’ve received! You guys are great! I’m just making sure I am picking up what you’re putting down...

 

[Chad D.]

And other than the softener, I’m guessing it’s a good plan to do a filter of some type before anything else? Any specific recommendations on they stuff for what I am working with?

 

[Skyjumper]

just to clarify one point - the 1/2 cup citric is for a 50lb bag of salt. if you use 25lb bags only use 1/4 cup, etc.

the resin cleaner you can put in the night before regen. they also make an auto feed system but I don't know how well those work. and if you skip a week no big deal you have the citric in the salt.

you can use water any time you want except during the actual regeneration cycle. the water in the brine tank stays there until the brine draw cycle.

I don't think you'll need anything other than the softener. your water looks to be pretty good. maybe the cartridge filter before the softener, but I don't know if you need it based on the info here.

I would also recommend a Clack WS1 softener. Clack valves are the best in my opinion. very easy to work on and maintain, and with iron in the water you will have to take it apart and clean it at some point. you do have to buy Clack from a dealer, but its worth the extra couple hundred bucks. you can buy parts online and service it yourself its a really good valve.

 

[ditttohead]

A Hydra is typically adequate. It is more of a garbage catch should anything go funky with your well.

 

[Reach4]

My intent is to use PEX, but can do just about anything.

If you are going to hook the pex pretty much to the softner, avoid short in-line pex runs. Instead plan an elbow or two. 3/4 and 1 inch pex are not nearly as flexible as I imagined.

 

[Chad D.]

Very cool info and advice on the softener, maintenance treatments, and hydra filter. I believe I’m headed for success!

sizing... was I accurate on my estimate for the softener grain “volume”? In my limited research, it seems that going too big is more of a waste than a benefit. Should I be looking for a 1-cu ft, or 1.5? Seems like the 1.5 may only cost more salt per regenerate at my levels...

Thoughts on that?

also, what is the typical regen GPM requirement? Is it anything like a backwash cycle on a birm filter? Or is it lower flow? My well is only about 8 GPM...

 

[Skyjumper]

in theory you should be fine with 1cuft. but since you're using it to remove iron I myself would go with 1.5 and still backwash it every 7 days regardless of what the calculations say. it's probably overkill, but I have battle scars from my war with iron and I'd rather show up to a gun fight with an AK47 than a bb gun.

 

[Reach4]

From what I have read, when handling significant iron, backwashing more often is good. So the 1 cuft would have an advantage.

 

[Chad D.]

in theory you should be fine with 1cuft. but since you're using it to remove iron I myself would go with 1.5 and still backwash it every 7 days regardless of what the calculations say. it's probably overkill, but I have battle scars from my war with iron and I'd rather show up to a gun fight with an AK47 than a bb gun.

i do agree that overkill is always the bare minimum that a person should be willing to accept! On a system, such as the Clack WS1, do you think that the salt consumption will be 50% higher with a 1.5 cu ft resin capacity than it would for a 1.0?

I am likely overthinking... In other words, is the salt use based on what the system is capable of, or is it based on just how much of this capacity you’re using? Hope that rambling question made sense...

I’m trying to track down a source for Clack parts, and have reached out to them for assistance. I work for a fire sprinkler system company that is part of a massive parent company. It is very likely that I have a sister company that is a dealer, so this may be a good way to acquire the parts.

I’m curious what a recommended program would look like for the WS1, with my specific iron/hardness values and a 1.5 cu ft resin volume.

 

[Skyjumper]

i do agree that overkill is always the bare minimum that a person should be willing to accept! On a system, such as the Clack WS1, do you think that the salt consumption will be 50% higher with a 1.5 cu ft resin capacity than it would for a 1.0?

I am likely overthinking... In other words, is the salt use based on what the system is capable of, or is it based on just how much of this capacity you’re using? Hope that rambling question made sense...

I’m trying to track down a source for Clack parts, and have reached out to them for assistance. I work for a fire sprinkler system company that is part of a massive parent company. It is very likely that I have a sister company that is a dealer, so this may be a good way to acquire the parts.

I’m curious what a recommended program would look like for the WS1, with my specific iron/hardness values and a 1.5 cu ft resin volume.

so the salt usage topic can get a bit tricky. the softener will use the same amount of salt every time it regenerates regardless of how much of the available capacity was used... however, you can program it to use less salt per regeneration if you plan on regenerating more often --- does that make sense? but why would you do that as opposed to just gettting the smaller softener??? the extra capacity acts a reserve to prevent any iron leakage during high usage days or if you run out of resin cleaner, and it will also extend the life of the resin, etc. You might also be able to use a more efficient salt dosage with the 1.5. BUT, the first time your wife has iron in her morning shower will be last time you ever give a dang about salt efficiency...

For a 1.5 I'd start by programming it for 2,500 gallons capacity and 12lb salt. I don't recall if you can directly program days between regenerations with the WS1 -- I'll check. If you can I'd set it at 7. This will give you plenty of extra capacity so you won't get iron leakage on day 6 when your wife does 6 loads of laundry and your kids take multiple showers.

getting the whole Clack system is a different issue that getting the replacement parts. The whole system has to come from a local dealer (maybe your sister company??). the parts you can buy online. I'll PM you with my source, but that's a moot point if your company is a dealer.