Water Softener, In need of a new system...

[Water Pro]

Good afternoon Friends. New to this forum, but well seasoned on how they work!

I currently have a rented softener system that I was quite happy with till the provider sold to a much larger company. Our level of service is not what it used to be, and the provided services are no longer in line with the original contract parameters. The specs on the system are pretty vague, other than it is a softener with a salt tank. I don't know the capacity of the system, but it regens every other day and I go through 2-3 bags of salt per month. A single 4 1/2 x 20" blue filter is after the softener with a sediment type 5-micron filter.

That said, I am planning to remove the rented system and install one I own. Since I can't say for certain that my current system is the most appropriate, I had a well water test performed. Lab results are back in my hand now, and I would like to ask for opinions and suggestions that may help guide me down the right path...

Test results are:

Iron: 1.00 mg/L
Arsenic: Not detected
Hardness: 79.2 mg/L
Conductivity: 183 umhos/c
TDS: 114 mg/L
Nitrogen, Nitrate: 1.02 mg/L
pH: 6.8
Coliform: Absent
E. Coli: Absent

I'm not versed in this stuff, but I am trying to learn. Let's see how I do... Please, straighten me out where necessary!

79.2/17.1=4.64 Grains
Add 5 more for the iron = 9.64 grains per day, per person.
4-5 people in our 4 bedroom 2.5 bath home. Call it 5?
5 people x 70 gallons per day = 350 gallons per day.

350 gpd x 9.64 grains = 3,374 grains per day.

A 1 cubic ft. (24,000) grain softener puts me at a regen cycle of 7.12 days...


What about the total dissolved solids??? A big 4 1/2" x 20" blue filter thing? If so, a single sediment type filter, or the triple one that has three different filter types in series? Seems like this should be installed prior to the softener; please confirm.

What am I missing? My very basic fire sprinkler fitter brain says that the rest of the test results are not alarming. Thoughts on that assumption?

This system will treat all of the water that goes to my home. Only the irrigation will be non-treated.


Thanks for reading my long-winded first post and for any input you may have!

your better off using 48000 grain (1.5 CF) unit. using 12 lbs salt will regen 36000 grains of the 48000. 36000/3374 =10.66 days. it takes a LOT more salt to regenerate the entire amount. does you raw water ever smell like rotten eggs or have you not yet experienced your raw water? honestly though, with iron present, it's best to regen every 7 days, which would be every 2450 gallons. that would equal 48 lbs/month of salt, which is around $100/year.

 

[Chad D.]

your better off using 48000 grain (1.5 CF) unit. using 12 lbs salt will regen 36000 grains of the 48000. 36000/3374 =10.66 days. it takes a LOT more salt to regenerate the entire amount. does you raw water ever smell like rotten eggs or have you not yet experienced your raw water? honestly though, with iron present, it's best to regen every 7 days, which would be every 2450 gallons. that would equal 48 lbs/month of salt, which is around $100/year.

Thank you. That all makes sense! We have experienced our raw water, and there is no sulfur or rotten odors. It just turns stuff brown...

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Chad D.]

Ok. Checked around and did my best to track down a Clack outfit near me.
Emailed Clack, who sent me to their west coast rep in CA. Called them, and was forwarded to the regional distributor in Portland, OR. A call to them landed me with a dealer in Eugene, which is within 30 minutes.
I spent some time on the phone with their sales folk, who is pushing a Water Right IMP 1054 unit. Claims it is a Clack valve. This will run me a hair under $1,300 retail.

A supply house that I use for my work is selling an Avid IX-1054-1 and they also claim Clack is the valve supplier. This option in about $760 because I can buy wholesale...

Thoughts on these options? I’m fine either way, as long as I’m buying the right stuff!

 

[Skyjumper]

A supply house that I use for my work is selling an Avid IX-1054-1 and they also claim Clack is the valve supplier. This option in about $760 because I can buy wholesale...

if this is the Avid IX then YES that is a clack valve, and that's a smokin' deal. I'd jump on it.
https://avidwatersystems.com/shop/residential/water-softeners/ix-series/

 

[Chad D.]

if this is the Avid IX then YES that is a clack valve, and that's a smokin' deal. I'd jump on it.
https://avidwatersystems.com/shop/residential/water-softeners/ix-series/

It is an IX, from what I gather. Will confirm.
I buy a TON of parts through this place for work, and we do have pretty good negotiated pricing.

a spin down filter is under $50, and a 4.5 x 20” big blue with DGD filter is about $75! This may work splendidly.

I really appreciate everyone’s help and input!

 

[Chad D.]

Picking up today. Can this thing be transported laying down? Or does it need to be vertical? Not sure if the resin is installed at factory...

 

[EAJ]

I would consider using fine mesh resin in the softener, it can help with the iron issue a bit better than standard mesh. Lots of differing opinions on that, but it does work in the applications I've used.

 

[Chad D.]

Picking up today. Can this thing be transported laying down? Or does it need to be vertical? Not sure if the resin is installed at factory...

Picked it all up today and got it unloaded at home. I’ll get it all planned out and pick up pipe and fittings in the next few days, and then find a time when the family will be out of my hair for a few hours so I can get it all put together without the stress of having the water off for a bit...

Definitely an IX model. I also really like that the brine tank is square, rather than round. This all goes in a pretty tight spot, so the shape helps fit into a corner. All in, with the spin down, a 20” big blue, and two DGD filter cartridges was a hair under $900.00 (no sales tax in OR). Much less than I was thinking this was going to cost, and I wouldn’t have landed here without the help received in this thread. Thanks again for all of the help!!!

 

[Chad D.]

Ok. It’s been 3 years since installing this, and now I’ve got trouble…

Our pump was pulled a few months ago, after it quit working one day. Easy fix, was due to a small nick in a wire. New wire was installed and back into the well went the pump.

Recently, we’re getting a foul taste in our water. A little like metal. Hot water is also a little smelly, like rotten egg. H2S, I’m assuming…

This started after a two week vacation, so I’m assuming whatever is in our water had a good chance to grow in the heater.

I’ve flushed the heater. I’ve replace anode. I’ve put 1/2 gallon of 3% hydrogen peroxide in the heater for four hours and flushed. I’ve cranked the temp to 150°. I cannot kill it…

Heater is less than 18 months old.


I’m wondering if my softener is no longer pulling enough iron out to keep us clean. It was suggested early in this thread to use a backwashing iron filter prior to my softener, which is certainly an option.

Other than the softener, about the only item that is old is our 119 gallon pressure tank. It’s 11 years old. Im sure it’s got a lot of crap in it! If I replace it, should I consider a smaller tank with a cycle stop valve? I like the idea of them and the more constant pressure without the huge tank, but would like to hear about others’ experience with them before buying. It’s just a thought if I am already potentially replacing a tank.

Before I do anything, I will have the water from the house tested. I’m assuming that the water out of the well is still similar to a few years ago…. Will report back with my results.

 

[Reach4]

1. I suggest sanitizing your well and plumbing if the weather is decent. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my write-up.

2. If your softener is dealing with iron, you need to treat the resin. My preferred way is with Iron Out powder. There are various ways. Study up. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/garys-trick-and-how-effective-is-iron-out.47363/ is one thread you may want info from.

The method described in https://summitbrands.com/iron-out-rust-stain-removers/powder/ is easy, but more intensive treatment is better IMO.

A google search for
iron out treatment for water softener
may turn up something of interest.

Precharged Pressure tank flush:
1. Connect a hose to the sediment drain valve, and run that to where you plan to drain the water. I suggest filtering the output through a cloth if you suspect the sediment may include sand.
2. Turn off the pump.
3. Open the drain valve, and let it drain until the water stops. It would be possibly interesting to watch the first water that comes out.
4. Close the valve, and turn the pump back on, and let pressure build, but no need to fill the tank.
5. Repeat steps 2, 3 and 4 as needed.

 

[Chad D.]

1. I suggest sanitizing your well and plumbing if the weather is decent. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my write-up.

I’ve got a 6” well, with no real easy way to dump water back in the top. Since my well is in the corner of my pump house, everything goes right in the top. I can remove the 1/2” vent tube, but that’s about it if I need to keep the pump in operation.

2. If your softener is dealing with iron, you need to treat the resin. My preferred way is with Iron Out powder. There are various ways. Study up. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/garys-trick-and-how-effective-is-iron-out.47363/ is one thread you may want info from.

The method described in https://summitbrands.com/iron-out-rust-stain-removers/powder/ is easy, but more intensive treatment is better IMO.

A google search for
iron out treatment for water softener
may turn up something of interest.

To be honest, I tried to read through these links and got confused with one because I have a tough time understanding how I can do it, and irritated by the other because of the bickering.

At 3 years with no resin maintenance beyond citric acid in the brine tank and and a continual dose of Res-Care Pro via a little wicking system, might I just be smart to clean the softener valve area, replace the resin, and put a backwashing iron filter (birm?) in front of the softener?

Precharged Pressure tank flush:
1. Connect a hose to the sediment drain valve, and run that to where you plan to drain the water. I suggest filtering the output through a cloth if you suspect the sediment may include sand.
2. Turn off the pump.
3. Open the drain valve, and let it drain until the water stops. It would be possibly interesting to watch the first water that comes out.
4. Close the valve, and turn the pump back on, and let pressure build, but no need to fill the tank.
5. Repeat steps 2, 3 and 4 as needed.

That sounds easy enough! I’ll work on this before think about replacement. But if I do need to replace, thoughts on the smaller tank with CSV?


Thanks for chiming in! I really appreciate your input.

 

[Reach4]

1. Removing the 1/2 inch NPT vent cap should be fine. I would consider adapting a bit of copper 3/8 tubing, block the end with solder or a hammer, and drill a hole in the side that would spray the underside of the well seal. But for the recirculation, a 1/2 inch NPT pipe screwed into that hole would have plenty of capacity.

2. Your citric acid and wick system have probably helped a lot. There is more than one right way. Let me summarize a more intense IO treatment off the top of my head.
a. Get a cheap TDS meter, and be prepared to hold that in the drain line stream.
b. Dissolve 1 full cup of IO crystals times the cubic ft of resin, into a whatever amount of water it takes, and pour that into the brine well.
c. Start a regen, and either skip to the BD cycle, or wait until the BD cycle. During the BD cycle, monitor the meter. Playing the drain line into a small cup or tuna can may help.
d. at between 5 and 20 minutes into BD, expect a sharp rise in TDS from 3 digits to much higher. It may overrange the meter. At that point, stop the flow, and an easy method to do that is to put the softener into bypass with the valves. The softener may think it is still regenerating, but things have stopped flowing. The IO is concentrated at the resin.
e. Wait. How long? Overnight would be nice. Something lower is probably OK.
f. move the bypass valve into in-service. Trigger an immediate regen. If you watch the early drain discharge, I would like to hope it is rust-colored.
g. After that regen, should you do one more? I am not sure. You decide.

Replacing resin could be worthwhile, but it is long-term chlorine that makes resin disintegrate. Changing resin is harder than you think.

That's my thought.

I think a CSV is at its best when you do a lot of long lawn watering. But I don't notice cycling of my water between 36 and 56 (what I chose). You may be more sensitive to that than I.

CSV with a big tank? Normally you would set the CSV to be closer to the cut-off pressure than the cut on. So there will often be a longer period as the big tank empties before you get that steady pressure.

PS: Short IO treatment. Dissolve an amount of IO into warm water. 1/2 cup is the maker's number. Pour down brine well. Next time it regenerates, that IO will go thru with the brine. No immediate regen needed.

Yes, citric acid smells better that IO. The IO is more effective, and should rinse out and not be in your house water.

 

[Reach4]

Also, probably not BIRM. If you are going to get a backwashing iron filter, it is important that you have adequate backwash.

KL would probably be better, but a lot of people under-backwash it. KL with AIO3 is something you might read up on.

 

[Chad D.]

Awesome input, thank you! I’ll need to read that a few times to process and decipher what you’re saying, as this isn’t within my normal day to day lingo…

KL. AI03. Two terms I need to learn about… I’d only suggested birm because that’s what a neighbor uses..

 

[Reach4]

Trivia: BIRM stands for Best Iron Removal Media, I think.