Need to replace old softener, company that did original install gave me really high quote, advice appreciated on sourcing my own softener.

[BobLobLo]

Hello, thanks for taking time to help!

TLR - want to purchase my own unit, need help finding a quality unit; I want a unit that is efficient for my situation and don't want to get ripped off
(what's marketing bs what's real?)

My current unit is ~20 years old, stopped taking salt. Due to age I figure it's just best to replace the entire unit. company gave me a replacement cost of $2000 for a new unit.

Obviously the house is already plumbed for it, this seems pretty outrageous to me considering what I've been finding online. I know everyone has to eat, but this seems like ~$1000-$1400 profit for a simple swap...I can't really justify that.

I have 18 hardness, .8 ppm iron, 8.8ph, well water. 3 adults 2 kids on the system.

I'm trying to educate myself on the important specs, but could use some professional advice. I'm trying to sift through marketing and real value..I've read the education material from aquatell and feel somewhat informed but don't really understand the differences between the control valves (5600sxt, 5810sxt ,2510sxt, etc)

I've been looking at systems from aquatell and aquasure and the genesis 2 unit.

thanks!

 

[Reach4]

2510sxt is a a 1 inch path valve, and the other two are 3/4. 5600sxt is nice IMO. It switches slowly and won't scare you if standing next to it. I would expect 2510 is similar in that aspect. 5800, I don't know.

The 5810 was discontinued but parts will be available for a good while. I don't know if the 5800 shares any of the problem technology. I think it refills the brine tank with soft water, which would be an advantage.

Your iron is fairly substantial, and you would need to do some extra treatments regularly -- maybe with Iron Out.

https://www.menards.com/main/grocery-home/housewares/cleaning-supplies/all-purpose-cleaners/iron-out-reg-rust-stain-remover/io10n/p-1444444183163.htm

What does the old one look like? Maybe post a photo, and remove the cover if it is easy enough. Not taking water could be a clogged injector or injector screen. I presume it goes thru a regen but water does not get drawn out.

I presume your own well, and not city water.

 

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[BobLobLo]

2510sxt is a a 1 inch path valve, and the other two are 3/4. 5600sxt is nice IMO. It switches slowly and won't scare you if standing next to it. I would expect 2510 is similar in that aspect. 5800, I don't know.

The 5810 was discontinued but parts will be available for a good while. I don't know if the 5800 shares any of the problem technology. I think it refills the brine tank with soft water, which would be an advantage.

Your iron is fairly substantial, and you would need to do some extra treatments regularly -- maybe with Iron Out.

https://www.menards.com/main/grocery-home/housewares/cleaning-supplies/all-purpose-cleaners/iron-out-reg-rust-stain-remover/io10n/p-1444444183163.htm

What does the old one look like? Maybe post a photo, and remove the cover if it is easy enough. Not taking water could be a clogged injector or injector screen. I presume it goes thru a regen but water does not get drawn out.

I presume your own well, and not city water.

My old valve is a mechanical fleck 5600

it goes through the all the steps, but does not draw water from the brine tank. However, this unit is like 20 years old, so I'm really doubting the worth in fixing it.

is 0.8ppm iron that substantial? i thought that was pretty low. I do plan on using iron out a couple times per year just in case though.

I guess one are that I never really see discussed is the media tank itself. Is the filter media and how it's put together so unimportant that really any softener will due as long as it has a nice valve ?

 

[Reach4]

"My old valve is a mechanical fleck 5600"
There are two major types of that: Economizer that regens based on a meter, and a timed unit that regens based on time. If the Economizer, it is probably worth fixing. If it is timed, a metered softener will work better. The Economizer metered unit has a time of day clock so that the regen can occur at 2AM or whatever you set it up for. Are you considering troubleshooting and repair, or are you already pretty sure you want a new unit? What tank size do you have? If it is not 12 inch diameter, you probably want a bigger tank anyway for your crew and your hard water. I figure a 10x54 inch tank with 1.5 cuft of resin would regen around every 4 to 5 days. Not terrible. You would like to see 7 or more. A new system would probably be 12x52 with 2 cuft of resin and regen about every 5 to 6 days, and even larger tanks are available.

By filter media, I think you are talking about the softener resin. In wells, that can last a long time.

Tanks would be the same, but the diameter of the distributor tube (in the tank) can be different in a non-5600 valve. Yours will be 1.05 inch OD (3/4 pvc size).

In swapping to a new softener, using quality flex lines would make that easier. I don't think you would find what I am referring to in a big box store.

Since mine is ~0.35 iron yours seems substantial. To somebody with 2.00 ppm, it would not seem so. Now that I think of it, I think substantial overstated it.

In either case, I would look to clean the injector and injector filter. Each 5600 works the same in that regard. Another possibility is a leaky or clogged brine tube. Can you remove the connection of the brine tube at the valve, suck on the tube, and get salt water but not air?

$2000? Not at all outlandish. Setup. Dealing with what happens if something fails and have to get replacement stuff. DIY? Also not a bad idea. But by buying the system installed it is almost boom done. No carting stuff to and from the basement.

 

[BobLobLo]

"My old valve is a mechanical fleck 5600"
There are two major types of that: Economizer that regens based on a meter, and a timed unit that regens based on time. If the Economizer, it is probably worth fixing. If it is timed, a metered softener will work better. The Economizer metered unit has a time of day clock so that the regen can occur at 2AM or whatever you set it up for. Are you considering troubleshooting and repair, or are you already pretty sure you want a new unit? What tank size do you have? If it is not 12 inch diameter, you probably want a bigger tank anyway for your crew and your hard water. I figure a 10x54 inch tank with 1.5 cuft of resin would regen around every 4 to 5 days. Not terrible. You would like to see 7 or more. A new system would probably be 12x52 with 2 cuft of resin and regen about every 5 to 6 days, and even larger tanks are available.

By filter media, I think you are talking about the softener resin. In wells, that can last a long time.

Tanks would be the same, but the diameter of the distributor tube (in the tank) can be different in a non-5600 valve. Yours will be 1.05 inch OD (3/4 pvc size).

In swapping to a new softener, using quality flex lines would make that easier. I don't think you would find what I am referring to in a big box store.

Since mine is ~0.35 iron yours seems substantial. To somebody with 2.00 ppm, it would not seem so. Now that I think of it, I think substantial overstated it.

In either case, I would look to clean the injector and injector filter. Each 5600 works the same in that regard. Another possibility is a leaky or clogged brine tube. Can you remove the connection of the brine tube at the valve, suck on the tube, and get salt water but not air?

$2000? Not at all outlandish. Setup. Dealing with what happens if something fails and have to get replacement stuff. DIY? Also not a bad idea. But by buying the system installed it is almost boom done. No carting stuff to and from the basement.

Given the media has 20+ years on it, I was basically resigned to replacement. My meter is timed, not flow based.

I've read that Grain is somewhat misleading, how do I determine the optimal cubic feet of resin? After lurking the forums it seems that if you have more capacity and regen before you max it out, you get more efficient regens?

thanks for your help so far, much appreciated.

 

[Reach4]

Get 2 or more cuft or more.

But if you like to run numbers, figure about 20000 grains of softening per cubic ft. Do not use the 32k or 48k or 64k numbers in calculations Just think of those as marketing code for 1 cuft, 1.5 cufr or 2 cuft.

Figure 60 gallons of softened water per person.

Find your hardness and apply the high-hardness compensation factor.
terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/fleck-9100-sxt-programming-settings.60651/

Regarding your max it out thing, I am not sure what you call maxing it out. But longer time between regens is good if you don't have much iron that you are asking the softener to deal with. If the inside of your toilet tanks are not rust colored, you don't have much iron. If they are rust colored, I would get a lab water test to measure your iron.

 

[DIYMissus]

With the help of the really smart people here, I figured out what we needed . hubby and I swapped our old water softener for a new twin system ( our hardness is about 120 gpg) it was fairly easy to do. I wouldn't say it is a first ever DIY project but if you have some basic plumbing skills you should be fine.

 

[Treeman]

Hello BobLobLo,

I'm in south central Michigan and I went through the DIY education process here about 4 years ago to purchase my softener. I will share my tidbits of what I learned here and elsewhere. Like all things, there is no 100% consensus among both pros and serious DIYers. Spend a few days searching here to get up to speed.

- Best to stay with one of the major valve mfg.: Fleck, Clack, Autotrol. Bias here runs toward the first 2. I chose Clack WS 1 for it's claimed simplicity, easy rebuild, reliability (no regrets). My prior Autotrol lasted 18 years.......... Clack prefers dealer/contractor only sales ........a BIG challenge for DIY.
- I use the ResCare solution in my Clack Res Up unit to manage my 1ppm iron successfully. Old posts here recommend shorter recharge times to manage iron. My over-ride is set for 7 days.

- I would inquire here about your very high pH and if that will cause issues.
- I developed my own spreadsheet to optimize the best softener size for salt AND water use.
- My Charger brand softener has a turbolator, the same as my prior 18 year old unit. Works well for me. The pros here are biased against it. My point - educate yourself, consider the source, don't get analysis paralysis.
- This ebook is excellent to get up to speed. It pushes ultra efficiency 6lb. salt/cu. ft. settings. I use 8 lb./cu. ft. due to my iron.
....use this as an additional/starter info source, NOT the only one.

Download The eBook That Will Make You An Instant Softener Expert

The Ultimate Guide To Choosing a Water Softener is 45+ pages of expert explanations, comparisons, and recommendations.

www.aquatell.ca

How to Properly Size a Water Softener - Aquatell

Let Aquatell help you take away the confusion of how to properly size a water softener. Speak to a Certified Water Specialist or Shop Online Today!

www.aquatell.com

- Fun calculators to play with: again, an additional tool, not the bible.

How To Pick the Best Water Softener - Water Softener Calculator - Removing Iron - Potassium chloride

Water Softener Calculator By Tank Size And Hardness Level

A comprehensive water softener capacity setup calculator. Calculates estimated life cycle of a water softener

www.apswater.com

- Do you have any plumber/trades friends that can get your unit from a local supply house (not open to public)?


I have tons of bookmarks for DIY help. Let me know what you need.

 

[BobLobLo]

- Do you have any plumber/trades friends that can get your unit from a local supply house (not open to public)?


I have tons of bookmarks for DIY help. Let me know what you need.

I do know a plumber that may be able to access stuff from a trade house. If I can, is there a specific unit you'd recommend?

Also, my main confusion is whether I should be going 1.5 or 2.0 cubic feet. Any insight into this?

Also, if I cannot get a system from my plumber acquaintance, do you have a system from an online resource you recommend?