Need help reviving an old well

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I bought a house that had the water converted over from a shallow well to city water decades ago. They hooked it up to a spicket, but I don't think they used it much. Currently, I get a mere trickle— then nothing.

The pump and the tank are in the house, and it pulls through an inch and a half galvanized pipe that leads to a 3 inch casing outside. There's no inner pipe or pitless adapter (although I do see an opening where the pump run comes in), so it's just trying to pull water through what I imagined to be a leaky casing. The water sits about 25' down which is probably only about 20' below the pump height.

I figured the bottom of the casing had a filter of some sort that either corroded or was clogged. To test this and possibly isolate the vertical casing from the horizontal run to the house and the pump, I put my 2" trash pump suction hose down the casing and sealed the top. It pumped some dirty water for about 5 seconds and then it was crystal clear and cold. Awesome flow. No need to drill!

However, I just couldn't prime the inside pump no matter what I tried. Is it possible that air leaks in the run to the house would prevent the pump inside from fully priming, or is it more likely that the old check valve or pump needs to be replaced?

I assume the casing doesn't have the airtight problem because it worked with the suction hose, but maybe the gas trash pump just overpowers whatever air leak might be present in the casing?

When I remove the cap outside and fill the casing with the hose, the water level in the casing drops steadily. Is this normal?

I'd appreciate your thoughts! I'm thinking about running new 2" PVC down the casing and using a pitless adapter with flex whip and fresh pvc to the pump, but I'd hate to do that if it's not necessary.

20190820_223341.jpg
 

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Valveman

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You probably have a suction leak. You will need to prime the line from outside and get water filled all the way to the check valve under the pump. Then you will also need to prime the pump above the check valve. If you can get the suction pipe full all the way to the pump and you don't have a suction leak it should work.
 

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You probably have a suction leak. You will need to prime the line from outside and get water filled all the way to the check valve under the pump. Then you will also need to prime the pump above the check valve. If you can get the suction pipe full all the way to the pump and you don't have a suction leak it should work.

So I did that, but It's tricky because the water receeds in the casing outside. So I filled that at the pump after the check, and outside I let the hose continually run to top off at the casing. I gave it enough time to fill the suction hose between the casing and the pump.

When the pump was turned on, there was a sudden moment where the pump seemed to prime and the water shot down the casing toward the pump. I quickly screwed the cap back on and ran back downstairs. It was short-lived, though. I had left the bottom of the tank open to allow air to escape, and the hose attached to the tank had very little flow. Was I supposed to leave the bottom of the tank closed?

Either way, I'm trying to understand how the pump could even keep its prime with the water in the casing receding like that. The pump would have to pull through the air every time, unless, if I primed it correctly, it would hold?

If this seems indicative of a leak, what would you do? I can dig 5ft down around the casing and try to install a pitless adapter, install new 2" downpipe inside the casing with a foot valve, and run a new line in to the same old pump. But I'd hate to do this and find out it was the pump!

I'm just trying to get this set up for free irrigation.
 
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1 1/2" pipe going out to 3" casing? I am guessing there should be a pitless adapter and a 1 1/2" drop pipe with a foot valve at the bottom? You can't just draw water up 3" casing unless it is completely sealed up top. Even then it would need to be primed to the top and the seal would hold it like holding your finger over a straw full of ice tea. But I would think if there is suppose to be a foot valve and your drop pipe is missing there would not be an additional check valve under the pump. That check valve made me think it was a driven well that uses the casing as the drop pipe, but now I don't think that. Need more info.
 

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There is no pitless adapter or drop pipe. Just a small 1 1/2" opening where the horizontal line comes in. No adapter or fitting sticks in to the casing, it's completely flush.

The 3" casing is sealed with a threaded cap. The check valve makes me also think it's a driven well. When the pump primed for a moment, the water dropped from the top of the casing to the level of the horizontal pipe, but I think it also went lower because I couldn't get the cap on in time. And the water recedes in the casing too quickly to just cap it while trying to prime.
 

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Water going down the casing is a good thing. It means water should easily come back up as well. But you will have to prime it with the cap screwed on and sealed tight. Water should not be able to go back down if the top is sealed and it can't get air. With a tiny air leak you will lose it all. Maybe replace the cap with a ball valve and hose connection. Pump water down from another source while priming the pump, then shut off the ball valve. I think your missing something though, as that doesn't look like the way it was set up.
 

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So I finally got it to prime! I guess I just needed to let a little bit more air out of the line by the pump. The switch oscillates between 30 and 60 PSI and I have it hooked up to two sprinklers.

This morning, after three days, the pump showed pressure, but I went to turn on the sprinklers and it had no water. Gauges went to zero. SoI primed it again and it's working okay.

Am I supposed to fill the whole pressure tank with water? The horizontal line between pump and the well is about halfway up the height of the tank. I'm wondering if I should maybe be letting air out of the line by the pump by simply letting it out of the top of the tank instead of the galvanized nut by the pump.

Sprinklers definitely change their distance as the pump oscillates between 30 and 60 PSI. If I can solve the priming issue, assuming there's a leak somewhere, it would be nice to have a more steady pressure.
 

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Very cool. I appreciate this info! Thanks for helping me. Hopefully it'll hold its prime this time around. I'll look into getting one of these. In the meantime, would having more water in this old tank to begin with reduce the time between pump cycles? I think it kicks on about every 12 seconds with 2 sprinklers.
 

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Very cool. I appreciate this info! Thanks for helping me. Hopefully it'll hold its prime this time around. I'll look into getting one of these. In the meantime, would having more water in this old tank to begin with reduce the time between pump cycles? I think it kicks on about every 12 seconds with 2 sprinklers.
OMG yes. Fill the tank with air and you should get at least a minute or two between cycles.
 

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Fill it with air? Not water? I was asking if I should fill it with more water before I prime. I've been letting the air out of the pipe between the tank in the pump in order to get it to prime. Here's an image of the fitting halfway up the tank. I appreciate your help!
 

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Turn off the pump. Open a faucet and drain all the water out of the tank. Pull the plug or take off the gauge or something on the tank to let air in, so all the water will drain from the faucet. After ALL the water is drained from the tank, close the faucet, put the plug back in the tank, and turn on the pump. The tank should feel about 1/3 full of water and 2/3 air, making the pump run a minute or two instead of seconds.

Using a compressor you could blow air in the tank and speed up the process.
 

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Okay, awesome. Thanks for the info!

Although, it looks like it's still not holding its prime overnight :(

There must be a leak in the casing or in the horizontal run to the house. I wonder if I can insert an inflatable test plug just below where the horizontal run meets the casing. This could help me eliminate the vertical pipe from the horizontal pipe to try to isolate a leak.

Or maybe it'd be best to just put new pipe in altogether. It's only 25ish ft deep and the horizontal run is about 5 feet down. If I do this, is there a PVC alternative going from vertical to horizontal inside that 3 inch casing? Or would you suggest I somehow replace the top part of the casing and use galvanized for everything with a pitless adapter?

I so appreciate your help, valveman!
 

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Remove the check valve below the pump. Or at least take the guts out of it so it can't work and put it back. If you do have a hole in the underground pip, well pipe, or the foot valve is leaking, the water in the pressure tank will be able to go back that way and supply the leak. This will cause your pump to cycle on occasionally when no water is being used, but will stop losing prime. But yes eventually you are going to need to find and fix the leak.
 

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So I temped this in today to give it fresh pipe. The larger 1 1/4" will eventually go down five feet and connect via pitless adapter. The one-inch will rise straight up and lead to a hand pump.

I was able to take the top cap out of the pressure tank, the pump primed, and now it's cycles about every 67seconds with 2 sprinkler heads running. Is that about average?

One thing I'm noticing though, that inch and a quarter PVC goes down about 30 ft, but I didn't put a foot valve on it! So I can hear the water coming backward before the check by the pump when the pump turns off. So I assume I need to pull that 30 ft of glued PVC back up and put a foot valve on it, correct?

I guess I also need to put a foot valve on the 3/4 poly that leads to the 1" hand pump, correct? Not sure how I would fit both in a 3in casing.

I appreciate your help!

PS, I'm thinking they just put a foot valve on the bottom of the casing back in the sixties and that foot valve is what was leaking.
 

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Another thought I had, to be winter-proof...

Would it be possible to tee off of the horizontal run between the pitless adapter and the pump and install a yard hydrant?

Just figured I'd ask because a yard hydrant would get me below the frost line.
 

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Another thought I had, to be winter-proof...

Would it be possible to tee off of the horizontal run between the pitless adapter and the pump and install a yard hydrant?

Just figured I'd ask because a yard hydrant would get me below the frost line.
That photo in #15 is for a well without a pitless.

A yard hydrant would not do what you want, because that drains the riser, not the supply line. There are valves that can be controlled up top that can open a line underground for draining, but I don't remember what they are called. You could also put a hole or a drainback valve in the drop pipe, an then have a vacuum breaker at the high spot. If there are different levels, you will need to winterize by blowing out water with a compressor.
 

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Thanks, that's correct, the above-ground PVC is just temporary while I test. I'm also waiting to use the mini excavator to dig this. So when I connect the PVC horizontal run that goes to the house to the pitless adapter, should I put some kind of flexible pipe between the PVC and the pitless adapter? Or is the PVC pipe flexible enough to accommodate any ground shifting?
 

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Thanks, that's correct, the above-ground PVC is just temporary while I test. I'm also waiting to use the mini excavator to dig this. So when I connect the PVC horizontal run that goes to the house to the pitless adapter, should I put some kind of flexible pipe between the PVC and the pitless adapter? Or is the PVC pipe flexible enough to accommodate any ground shifting?
I would not expect the house or well casing to shift, but you might want to take some of the actions used for thermal effects. See http://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/PL_Tech_Man/ExpansionandContraction.pdf

If the distance is short I might consider PEX and if long, SIDR poly with a PVC sleeve through the foundation. Yet I expect PVC is up to the job too. I am not a pro.
 

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Thank you, Reach. So if I install a CSV between this pump and the tank, would I need to move the pressure switch to between the CSV and the tank, or can it stay on the pump?

Also, this air fitting at the base of the pump... what is its purpose?
 

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