Marble slab for a shower

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by spfrancis, Jun 17, 2014.

  1. spfrancis

    spfrancis Member

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    Roberto,
    Have you worked with these slim slabs before? I'm trying to determine how difficult it is to handle this stuff. I worry with a very uncommon material like this, you need to find someone who knows have to move this stuff around, how to cut it, and how to place it, and get it set on the wall and properly fastened to the wall...etc. I get the feeling that my contractor, who is familiar with thicker material or tile, would not handle this stuff properly. I even worry that regular tile guys may not know how, if they haven't done it before. I'm sure that most guys will say that they can handle it. At $1500 a sheet, I don't want them to learn at my expense.

    Sony
     
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    How does one cut these large panels, or do you enlist the help of a stone fabricator who is setup for large pieces like that? Don't know of any wetsaws or snap cutters that I'd trust, but there may be some out there.
     
  3. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD

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    Sony - The bigger tile crews often have on large wet saw with rollers than can cut really long tile. I have made up jigs to cut 3' tile before with success but to cut these bad boys if it was me I would be bringing my cut list to my stone manufacture. With a case of beer and some coffee.

    When I need larger tile cut I just drop it off and pick up the next day.

    Roberto might have one of those big sexy tile saws with glide rollers. A tile that thin could also be cut a little large and then fine tuned with the grinder....
     
  4. ShowerDude

    ShowerDude Showers

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    I get laughed at all the time when i show up to the site with my MK 660 7" saw. I rip 2ft -4ft porcelain all day with my little joke of a saw!!!!

    You can look into a budget 4" wet handheld saw. And a track guide set up. Polish edges with dry diamond pads.... image.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2014
  5. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Sony ,

    Yes , I did . It is a different handling , set up , etc. from regular tiles , if the full size of the tile is delivered at your place . You can always cut them by a third party , if the store doesn't offer the service , per your needed sizes . A well versed fabricator -- shop -- can do that too , just find the one which understand or work with these porcelain slabs .

    Using smaller tiles -- up to 24'' -- is probably easier as option in finding an installer , but there are many steps in which an experienced installer -- usually can handle much more than 24'' -- is probably equally important .


    There are few options now , from where you can start cutting for the choosing process . At least you will not regret you didn't now about at the right time .
     
  6. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    I could've accommodate you , if you just move a little closer .:D

    1/4 thick or thicker gets the treatment with this one .

    Rubi DS 250.jpg 50'' or smaller .


    Thin tiles get the treatment with these rails , up to 11' and 1/4 or thinner

    Raimondi rails & Cutters -- IH 05.jpg


    The rest , depending of the job , size , thickness , etc gets evaluated as needed . :)
     
  7. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD

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    Roberto are using a mortar mix for the install and thin-set? Any ad-mix? Do you worry more about indent fractures with those panels.

    I love the look but man at a 1/4" I would be worried about any kind on stress on them.

    Your a ninja Sir. Awesome looking floor. I knew you had one of the those big bad boys (long tile cutters)....
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
  8. spfrancis

    spfrancis Member

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    Roberto,
    Thanks for all the information. I really like the look of that thin slab. I wish some of you guys did live closer as well.
     
  9. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Prepping is key , John , with those thin sheets .


    This is a skylight surrounding area , where thin tiles -- 3.5mm -- were used . 3 years now with no problems .

    This area is in constant stress , sun exposure , cold and hot temperature swings .......durock , Ultralite , Laminam tiles .

    Ardex also has a system for the thin tiles with backing fabric , 8+9 coating and X77 .


    Skylight & Laminam porcelain tile 014.jpg

    Skylight & Laminam porcelain tile 021.jpg

    Skylight & Laminam porcelain tile 029.jpg

    Skylight & Laminam porcelain tile 034.jpg

    Skylight & Laminam porcelain tile 058.jpg
     
  10. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Suite....

    Skylight & Laminam porcelain tile 059.jpg

    Skylight & Laminam porcelain tile Update 2 007.jpg



    3.5mm porcelain with backing fabric
     
  11. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD

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    Nice.

    What about the floor install. Looks like about a 3/4" setting bed was used for those huge slabs....

    Not seen the backing sheets from Ardex as yet. The stone guy on that yacht job I did used an Ardex primer over the back side of the thin marble sheets and then X77 as well. Love the idea of the backing sheets. Is it like the liquid membrane fleece or more like an HPG mesh?
     
  12. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    The floor is not mine , John .

    The recommendations -- floors only -- are not to use thinner then 6mm -- no mesh backing -- , super flat and , I would say , a stone substrate L/720 is needed .


    photo.jpg thermal fused fibber glass mesh backing on the 3.5mm porcelain Laminam
    .
    .
    .

    8+9 Treatment on Laminam.jpg Ardex 8+9 coating directly on the mesh backing on the 3.5mm porcelain Laminam
    .
    .
    .


    X77 treatment on 8+9 on Laminam.jpg Ardex X77 bonding coat in between substrate and the 3.5mm porcelain Laminam
     
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    I'm going to a workshop at Mapei in mid-August where one of the topics is how to work with some of these large format tiles...I may be able to shed some light on their take on how to install them with their products. If anything useful is discussed, I'll pass it along. Probably too late for the OP, but may be of general interest. The industry has not really caught up to the tile manufacturer's ability to make some of these huge tiles, and since they aren't cheap, it can be dicey to experiment.
     
  14. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD

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    Thanks Roberto.

    There seems to be no end to the uses of Ardex 8+9. I used it as well on that window sill prep I just did. #$%$$ing love that stuff.

    The niche re-tests (waterproofing testing) is now a week old. The addition of Ardex 8+9 took a semi-waterproof niche and made it waterproof. Funny how that happened. I even cut a massive hole in the top to install a diffuser for the LED's.

    I sent this drawing out to a client designing a steam shower with a Flammed Granite slab. Might help out this lady with her Marble Shower if she goes that route. The drawing is for an ACO shower drain with an oversized channel body and tile insert grate. The grate measures 34 3/4" wide. I addd a 1/4" for wiggle room. The shower wall tile and granite curb material complete the sides of the channel body and this drawing will help the client work out the ceiling pitch.

    [​IMG]

    The curb will be made from Bricks and covered with NobleSeal CIS.

    I like t o install the slab first for the floor in a job like this and then the drain. Do you do it similar Roberto? I feel setting the drain first is far to restrictive on the stone boys install. I also like the use of a temp 2"x brace as a stand off that can be removed so the slab can be wiggled back and forth while being set and then placed back in position to prevent any movement while curing.

    This way the ACO drain can be set perfectly after the slab floor is in place. Only then can the templates for the curb and curb top be made.
     
  15. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    Yeah , the 8+9 is a very good '' pookey ''. :D

    Ardex prefer to treat the mesh before the X77 , but the X77 will for sure stick to the mesh with no problems .

    .
    .
    .

    The drawing is looking good .I don't get the part of setting the drain last -- after finished slab is installed -- , Unless you use the clamping drain -- waterproofing it -- and then install the slab and the drain as finished materials .

    I also don't get the 1 1/4'' added to the '' X '' calculation . The drain body flanges are hidden and should not be considered in the calculation , as per the drawing .



    I am not a fan of this set up and install the mud for the linear drain at the right level , depending of the finished material -- tile , stone , mosaic -- . The waterproofing is done for the linear drain and not a combination of 2 systems .


    Most of the clients don't understand -- believe -- what it takes -- time wise -- to make it right . With the system you are describing -- I assume I understand it correctly -- I think it needs an extra day . :)
     
  16. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD

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    After the flood test I mud out the shower floor. This protects the floor membrane (NobleSeal CIS TS etc) from the installers. I leave a jig so that the stone guys knows where to leave the slab. He can then set the slab onto the mud bed and wiggle it back and forth a little. Boot stomp it. Get it set well. With the drain in place it is hard to wiggle these large slabs.

    I also don't like the slab's pulled back up once they go in.

    The other thing I like about this approach is I can set the drain to the slab and not the slab to the drain....

    Safer I think.
     
  17. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    So , are you deciding how the slab installer is doing it ?

    If they have to pull the slab up , do you think the mud bed over the WPM will come with it ?
     
  18. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD

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    Roberto that depends on how I build the shower pan and weather or not it's a bonded or unbounded membrane. Depends on the substrate as well. Lots of force involved lifting these slabs up. I would prefer to leave a tested bonded membrane in place. If I had a 2" 3701 mud bed I would not worry....

    Most times I have no control over the slab boys. The GC does. Seen some scary installs over the years.

    Like the one time - In Band Camp and entire shower went in with two large tubes of TiteBond..... WTF is that.

    Like the other time - when wood wedges where kicked in to shim the slab. With these installs a topical waterproofing measures can be risky.

    On a side note. Did you see the Uruguay Game. Who bites someone in the world cup? Must be a dozen camera's on him. What a dumb ass....

    The coach forgot Luis's Face Mask.... LOL


    [​IMG]
    "It was a Love Bite.. Come On. Don't be a big baby"

    [​IMG]
    "How come I'm the only one with a face mask?"


    [​IMG]
    "I love Italian!"


    [video=youtube_share;e61FSMRQGxk]http://youtu.be/e61FSMRQGxk[/video]

     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
  19. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

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    I've seen it , John . The mask photo is hilarious .


    But it is not the only incident ....Balotelly and the red carded player ....... both teams were testing each other . This time Italy didn't get it -- go through -- .

    Another falling European team ....seems like a hard task for them this tournament .
     
  20. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD

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    I think the heat and hummity is killing them. Reminds me of Mohammed Ali and the Rope A Dope trick.

    Counter Attack and defend for 80% of the match and then stick it too them. When they are gassed.....

    My daughter's soccer team a couple years back where gassing in the second half. To keep my little one fit we practice 20 minutes before practice and then ran a couple laps after practice. Then an extra practice once a week. More cardio. Bigger lungs. Stronger second halves...

    But the heat - that kils ya. I spend nearly four years working on Grand Cayman Island. Between 11:00 and 5:00 it was insane the working conditions. Then the sun dips the breeze comes in and you get a second wind. These poor bastards are playing their guts out in this...

    Freaking Awesome - Love the World Cup.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
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