Loud thud/slapping noise after well pressure tank cut off at 60 psi

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by willinnj, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. willinnj

    willinnj New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    I just moved into my new place and there is a weird noise within seconds after my pressure tank reaches its cut out point at 60 PSI.

    It cuts in very quietly with a click.However, at the cut out point, I hear the click of the pressure switch and then a loud thud or slapping sound. Does anyone has any ideas why and if this is an issue that will cause bigger problems in the future? Do I need to get a well contractor to come in?

    This is a video of the issue:


    Water Pressure tank: WELL RITE TANK WR140R
    Well Pump: STA RITE 3/4 HP Signature 2000 4" Submersible pump

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2014
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    What do you have between the incoming water and the pressure tank? Your pressure gauge seems to be hooked into a big brass thing. If it is just a manifold, that is OK. But it is large to be a manifold. If it is a check valve, it would be best to remove that. Bring the well water directly to the connection of the pressure tank, pressure switch, and pressure gauge, with no checkvalve topside.

    Mine is a Sta-rite 7SP4D02JL-04 Signature 2000 stainless steel 4" submersible pumps with 2000 date code first installed in 2002. I had it pulled this year due to some well work not related to pump performance (well casing extension), and I had the pump put back in. In 5 years I will know if I am glad I did not opt for a new pump while it was pulled.
     
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  4. willinnj

    willinnj New Member

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    Sep 11, 2014
    I do not think there is anything between the incoming water and pressure tank and the video kind of shows where the pipe comes in from the wall into the "big brass thing". I am not sure if it is a check valve. After this manifold/valve connection is a T connection to vertical pipe that leads to the pressure tank on the bottom and the house supply line on top. I will take a photo and post it tonight.

    Thanks!
     
  5. craigpump

    craigpump In the Trades

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    Apr 12, 2012
    Occupation:
    Self employed water system tech
    Location:
    Connecticut
    That "big brass thing" is a control center. It is ported for gauges, snifter valves and pressure switches and it contains a check valve.

    You might be able to remove that "big brass thing" depending on what style of tank you have, hydro pneumatic or diaphram/bladder.

    The noise you hear is a check valve closing
     
  6. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

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    Semi-Retired
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    NW Ontario, Canada
  7. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    I am pretty certain you have a problem with the check valve down the well. You can remove the guts from that check valve (control center) you have, which will either solve the problem or prove that you need to pull the pump. If the thump goes away, you solved the problem. If it is still thumping, you will need to pull the pump and replace the lower check valve. Then when you get the lower check working, you won’t need or want to put the guts back in the (control center/check valve).

    But your video was only 7 seconds long. How long did it take to get to 60 PSI? If it is only a few seconds, you probably have a bad bladder tank. A bad bladder tank can cause the check valve to wear out, so you may have to fix both problems.

    And I am assuming some of this because I am fairly sure that WR140R is a bladder tank and you don't have a Schrader valve in the control center?
     
  8. willinnj

    willinnj New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Thanks for the replies!

    It took approximately 60 seconds to go from 40 psi to 60.

    I am a layman in this and do not know what a Schrader valve is but will read into it.

    Is this a DIY project to pull the check valve from the control unit?

    I called around and a well guy told me if there is no air when I turn on the taps and the thud is after it cuts out, it's most likely the check valve near the tank that is the issue and for him to come out and replaced it will be around $450-$500.

    Seems that this checkvalve is required in my town.
     
  9. willinnj

    willinnj New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    image.jpg
    Piping to pressure tank
    image.jpg
    The control unit
     
  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    The schrader valve is like what tires have. Yours is under the cover on the top of your tank near that yellow label. the cover probably unscrews CCW.

    This might be a good time to go DIY. I think I understood valveman to say that he recognized your unit, and that you could turn that unit into a simple manifold by taking parts out.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2014
  11. craigpump

    craigpump In the Trades

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    Occupation:
    Self employed water system tech
    Location:
    Connecticut
    How much???

    Maybe I need to rethink my prices.
     
  12. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

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    NW Ontario, Canada
    They are talking about a different valve, used for a different purpose. Hydro-pneumatic tanks often have an air maker system that consists of a bleeder in the well, and a snifter (could be a Shrader valve) between the bleeder and the checkvalve. It looks like a tire valve but has a weaker spring to open under suction.
     
  13. willinnj

    willinnj New Member

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    Sep 11, 2014
    Yes, $450+ ballpark figure as he says that it most likely will take 2 to 3 hours (plus trip fee) and the part is $60+.

    I called another two companies and both asked similar questions on whether there is air when I open the faucets and told me that it is most likely the check valve near the pressure tank. They told me to call back if there is other issues. I wonder if it is too small of a job for them to make the trip?
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
  14. willinnj

    willinnj New Member

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    Sep 11, 2014
    I may just have to do this since it seems that it is either going to cost me a lot of money from the company yesterday or it is too small of a job for two other companies. I am trying to find a youtube video on how to take out the valve but have not found any.

    I called the previous owner and she told me that it has been this way since she took over the estate from her mom and that was over two years ago.

    I found the Sta Rite manual and it seems that the pump was installed 10 years ago in November 2004. Therefore, if I need to pull the pump, would it be better to replace the pump instead of replacing the lower check valve?

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
  15. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    If your “town” requires that check valve, you need to DIY, take it out, and just not tell anyone. That same negative pressure that is causing the pop can easily draw contamination into that line and pass it on to your drinking water. Any fertilizer, weed killer, or dog poo close to a connection in the underground line will get sucked into that line during negative pressure.

    And if that top check valve is not the problem, then it caused the problem. It has a plastic poppet inside that can easily be removed by taking out one screw. You just have to get the control center check valve out of the line to be able to get to it.

    500 bucks for a 50 dollar check valve? No wonder so many people are DIYing.
     
  16. willinnj

    willinnj New Member

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    Sep 11, 2014
    Thanks valveman!

    Repeating a question that I had earlier:
    I found the Sta Rite manual and it seems that the pump was installed 10 years ago in November 2004.

    Therefore, if I need to pull the pump, would it be better to replace the pump instead of replacing the lower check valve (as I suspect that labor to pull the pump will be most of the costs)?

    Thanks!
     
  17. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    If labor is the biggest expense then yes, replace the pump while your at it.
     
  18. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    IL
    How long is the trip?
    That unit has female threads on each end. So if you saw out the pipe on the output, the unit should unscrew. I think putting it back will be a lot harder. I can't see an easy way to do that.

    Here is an alternate idea: instead cut a few inches above and below the tee. Unscrew while rotating the tee. Put it back together with 2 repair couplings soldered in. I wonder how a plumber would do it.

    Plug this in as a search into your favorite search engine:
    "control center" well check valve
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
  19. willinnj

    willinnj New Member

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    Sep 11, 2014
    The trip is less than 30 minutes each way for all three companies that I have contacted. Therefore, around one hour round trip.

    I may just call my plumber to see if he wants to help me remove it and put it back. He told me that he does not work with well units and doesn't want to leave me with no water when I called him a few days back -- before the current assessment that it is likely the check valve.

    Thanks!
     
  20. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Semi-Retired
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I'm no plumber but I would start by:
    turning off the breaker
    disconnect the wires to the switch
    remove the switch and riser nipple
    loosen hose clamps on poly
    warm up the poly with hot water
    unscrew the barb from the checkvalve
    unscrew the checkvalve body
    remove the guts
     
  21. craigpump

    craigpump In the Trades

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    Apr 12, 2012
    Occupation:
    Self employed water system tech
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Turn off the breaker, cut above n below the T with a tubing cutter, back the T out of the control center, unwire the control center, back the control center off the adapter, gut the control center and reassemble with sweat unions or Sharkbites if you can't sweat a joint.

    All done in 45 minutes, $325-350 tops including tax.
     
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